Most restrictive state?

Frogs boiled from cold water, Trent. We're the frogs.... we hardly notice....

I must say it's refreshing to not be a felon-not-yet-caught on a daily basis. In NJ it was always a possibility that a trip to the range would end up as a trip to prison. It happened to me once and it took two years to sort out (in my favor, but at the cost of some $20K in legal bills: NJ said that assembling an AR-15 from a receiver legally bought at a NJ FFL was "manufacturing a firearm" under NJ law... so... into jail I went). Lesson learned is to have a video camera in the rear view mirror of your car, to know your 4th amendment rights COLD, to not be afraid to assert them, and to always video-record interactions with "law enforcement", which in NJ is an entire protected class of criminals. But I digress. Let's just say that the NJSP are not unrelated to the Gestapo and that I do not now and never will again trust or respect "law enforcement" officers to the day I die. They taught me that lesson fair and square. If you're a LEO reading this, mark my words: You can train someone like me to regard you with utter contempt and disgust for the rest of that persons life, and your worst enemy if you are a constitution-respecting good guy LEO is your "brother officers" who cause guys like me to need to paint you all with the same brush for our own self protection,

OK, I'm done ranting now.... Can you tell I REALLY hate NJ?


In Illinois, as soon as the CCW is sorted out, it'll be a pretty fair place to own guns. If you want full auto, get a storage locker and a trust east of you a piece and go enjoy. If I had to do it all over again in NJ, I would have done that decades ago with a trust and storage in PA. Heck, when the NJ assault rifle ban came out I moved my collection to PA and paid a LGS to keep my safe in the back room there and never worried about it. 'I coulda had a machine gun! >kicks self<


Willie

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Really great feedback. Thanks guys

Frogs boiled from cold water, Trent. We're the frogs.... we hardly notice....

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That's what I was thinking, some of the restrictions people are saying are "not that bad" are absolutely terrible if you ask me. Free states would never put up with half the crap that anti gun states deal with but we are outside of the boiling pot.

What I don't understand is how in liberal state law makers and anti gun citizens freak out saying all pandemonium would break out when it comes to things like constitutional carry, campus carry ect. Even though other states have been doing so for years with no problems.

New York wasn't too bad until the Safe Act was passed. Unfortunately, the law was so poorly written even some LE organizations are against it, mainly because it is so ambiguous. We still don't know if we can have 10 rounds or 7 rounds in a magazine even after a judge struck down the 7 round law. Some DA's around the state say they will prosecute anyone caught with 10 rounds regardless of the judge's ruling. Although it hasn't been tested yet it will be interesting to see if they could win the case.

Another escapee from NJ here. It is a pet peeve of mine that the NRA, and all the other gun rights organizations buy the BS that NJ is "may issue". What a crock of bull. Unfortunately I honestly think that the 2nd Amendment adverse are so heavily represented, that there is little hope unless there is a major demographic shift.

"Is New York anything like Illinois where the Anti's are concentrated only around the metro area?"


Absolutely. It's a nearly mirror image situation. Were NYC and it's immediate surrounds hacked off to become a new state the balance of NY would be a great place to live.


Willie

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^^Only if the folks in Albany went with the new state. I grew up in "the city" and left when I was 17 to go to college. A few visits back when my folks still lived there and that was enough. I DO miss the openness out West where any canyon or wash provided a good backstop for metallic shooting. Here in FL, it is either a public range on Forest Service land (NO thank you) or you join a club. One of the reasons I shoot more sporting clays than rifle and pistol anymore.

stevek said:

Another escapee from NJ here. It is a pet peeve of mine that the NRA, and all the other gun rights organizations buy the BS that NJ is "may issue". What a crock of bull.

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The NRA and other pro-gun organizations really need to change that distinction. It needs to be changed to these categories.

Shall Issue -Most of the states
May Issue -NY, CA, Mass*, RI** - Some counties or areas issue, some do not.
Needs Based NO Issue - NJ, MD and HI

* Some have said you can get a carry permit except in and around Boston
** Rhode Island is described by NRAILA has a 'hybrid shall issue/may issue" state

As a retired officer, I just looked up LEOSA (law allowing retired officers to carry in all states) in Hawaii. What an abomination!

HI wants you to register your gun within 3 days of arriving, don't know any other state that requires that. Don't even know if that's legal under LEOSA since it trumps basic state licensing laws.

If you move there, they insist you get a physical exam including eye and hearing tests, and have a physician fill out a 3 page medical form declaring you physically and mentally fit to carry a pistol. They have an 11 point checklist of forms, photographs, required documents, etc, that you have to have before you can even take your requalification as required by LEOSA.

This is definitely not what LEOSA is supposed to be all about.

DC Probably beats them all.

For states, in all honesty it is probably NJ, mainly because NJ is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

In just about any other state, pistols may be restricted, but you can go into your local sporting goods store and buy a "Joe Biden Special" without any special paperwork (Illinois excepted). So even if pistols are restricted by permit, you can at least get a shotgun to defend your home.

In NJ you can't even touch a gun in the gun store without a firearms ID card. This includes air guns.

The permitting process can take from between 30 days to six months. At least Illinois is consistent.

So why is it a self-fulfilling prophecy? How many of you got into guns because you just decided to buy one one day? Probably not many of you. Your father or friend or co-worker probably took you to the range one day. Well if that father or friend or co-worker never existed because getting a permit was too much of a pain in the neck then you would never have an opportunity for guns to come into your orbit.

Over time as people died or moved away, the state was left with fewer and fewer gun owners.

This is how more and more crazy gun laws can get passed in NJ. When only 14% of NJ residents own firearms, people don't care what gun laws are passed -especially when they don't own a gun, don't know anybody who owns a gun, and wouldn't even know how to buy one if they wanted.

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Makes sense.

I have family in NJ (Jersey city) and I've only visited them once...

Although that is a nice state, the laws are just ridiculous there. I found out you can't even pump your own gas at a gas station--an attendant has to pump it for you! W-T F??

^^ Don't tell anyone. It's NJ's best kept secret. We (of "they" now that I've moved) enjoy some of the lowest gas prices in the USA, and we sit in our cars all nice and warm while someone else pumps it. It's a huge benefit to the elderly, disabled, and the rest of us who don't like standing in the rain pumping gas. It's one of the only GOOD things about NJ. The legislature is constantly pressured by the gasoline industry lobby to change the law to allow self serve. The residents always pitch a fit and things stay the way they are.

It's a good thing.


Willie

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Fixed it for you That and we can't get a good bagel here. We did find a way to have Taylor Ham shipped to us though...

^^^

Yum.... I'm all about smugglin' Taylor Ham across the Mason Dixon line.


Willie

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Per the Brady Campaign, California boasts the nation's strongest gun control laws.

http://bradycampaign.org/?q=2013-state-scorecard

Proud to see my state of Wyoming gets a big fat F from the Brady crowd!

cbrgator said:

Per the Brady Campaign, California boasts the nation's strongest gun control laws.

http://bradycampaign.org/?q=2013-state-scorecard

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You mean they're wrong again?

According to their own list, Maine, one of the top ten states with the lowest gun death rate is also one they awarded an F. Can't have it both ways.

I too think it's Jersey, but it wasn't always that way. I grew up in Jersey. When I was a kid, in the mid 50's, I used to walk down the street, rifle over my shoulder, into the local police station, past the desk, down to the basement, and to rifle practice. That night I would walk home, if not first going down to the river and firing off any ammo I had left. Bow and arrows, same thing. No one even took notice. I left Jersey in the 60's for college, then enlisted. Never looked back nor went back. Live in PA now and it is a shall issue state. Love it.

I have a hard time believing Michigan is 11th on that list.

I have a hard time believing Michigan is 11th on that list.

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That list is from 2011, when we still had handgun purchase permits, which have since been eliminated. (They usually took 24 hours to process). On the other hand MI still does require that all handguns be registered. That has been a requirement since Prohibition, it didn't do anything but cost taxpayer dollars to maintain the registry then, and it does nothing now, for criminals don't register their handguns.

We do still have purchase permits, but only for private sales when you don't have a CPL. In my city purchase permits took 1-2 weeks to get.

mugsie said:

I too think it's Jersey, but it wasn't always that way. I grew up in Jersey. When I was a kid, in the mid 50's, I used to walk down the street, rifle over my shoulder, into the local police station, past the desk, down to the basement, and to rifle practice. That night I would walk home, if not first going down to the river and firing off any ammo I had left.

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New Jersey Attorney General Arthur Sills changed all that in 1966 with his 'martial law' approach to gun control. Mr. Sills was also at the Dodd hearings to give his input to the 1968 GCA. Sills was the one who came up with the Firearms ID card in 1966. Illinois adopted Sills' FID scheme in 1968 and called it the FOID. And Massachusetts picked up the FID scheme sometime later on as well.

These write ups give a glimpse into how New Jersey evolved to be so anti-gun .

http://cemeterysgunblob.com/2012/01/14/when-did-new-jersey-become-so-anti-gun/

http://cemeterysgunblob.com/2012/01/15/when-did-new-jersey-become-so-anti-gun-part-deux/

Hawaii is the worst in the country with it's registration of ALL firearms and it's needs based essentially no issue carry permit.

New Jersey and Maryland are both needs based essentially no issue carry permit states.

NY and California DO issue carry permits in some counties of the state and that should not put them on top of the list as the worst states for gun rights.


I believe New Jersey might be the worst state on the mainland for these reasons:

1.. Needs based essentially no issue carry permit

2.. Requirement of a separate 'permit to purchase' for each pistol.

3.. One handgun per month restriction.

4.. People have been arrested passing through under FOPA.

5.. Three to six months wait for the permits to be approved.

6.. The application for these permits require unreasonably intrusive private and personal information as well as three or up to four character references. (Including one from your employer in some areas of the state).

7.. Application requirements vary from town to town.

8.. Fees close to $100 for fingerprints, the background checks, the permit (s).

9.. And extra state NICS fees of $15.00 at time of sale.

10. Limited State NICS hours compared to the Federal NICS, closed Sunday and State Holidays.

11. Assault Weapons Ban.

12. Magazine Limit.

13. Handgun permit to purchase permit also required for pistol airguns and pistol black powder guns. (And the one handgun per month also applies to these according to some reports).

14. FID card also needed for air rifles and black powder rifles.

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^ Excellent, detailed post. Agree with all your findings, although Maryland is right on New Jersey's tailpipe.
Hawaii, of course, is in a class by its unworldly draconian self.

If an NYPD or other NY police or peace officer wanted to get across the Hudson from NYC to upstate NY, they had to take the George Washington Bridge through NJ, then head north on the Palisades Pkwy about 10 miles into NY.

Prior to LEOSA, if a Jersey cop stopped them during the short time they were in NJ,, and found out they were carrying, they would arrest them. NJ had a terrible reputation for doing things like that.