I'm Giving Up On 1911s

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I can go either way with a 1911, but my $340 out the door RIA G.I. is the best 1911 I've owned regarding function.
 
Wow, okay....My Spartan that's acting up, it's one of a few things ultimately. It either doesn't like the mags I use with the other Spartan that works great, it either needs some work done on the slide catch or the slide catch needs to be replaced with a better one (I've seen one from Wilson Combat I think was called the "Bullet Proof" one). I replaced the recoil spring with a 17lb spring in case that was the issue but nope (solved all the problems in my first one). I have Wilson combat mags and Chip McCormick mags that work great with my first Spartan and the second Spartan doesn't seem to like them.

So now I have to at some point disassemble the bugger, take a file to the slide catch, and see if that resolves the problem. To get the really great mags that supposedly would fix everything, I'd be looking at $40 a mag if not more without any guarantee.

These are not problems I've had with Glocks, Sigs, Taurus PT99s and 92s, Tokarevs (I own a bunch), Makarovs, my Bersa Ultra Compact 9mm, or P Series Rugers. Oh sure i've had trouble with my XDS .45 but nothing so major, and for the time being that gun is being allowed 300 rounds of use to allow for settling of problems that I think are largely slide spring related.

I get that top end 1911s can be awesome performers, if they weren't folks wouldn't buy them, but for what I would pay for a NIB Spartan (bought all mine used at good deals) I could used to get a used Sig 220. Yes Sig 220s have their issues, and the mags ain't cheap but the folks I know with their used and West German made Sig 220s that have fired over 10k rounds through them with nary a hiccup, would prefer them over 1911s most days (some who own Sig 220s also own high end 1911s).

Maybe it's because I'm cheap. Maybe I don't feel like I should have to scratch aside for six months to save up for a gun and then worry if it will work (I'm thinking like $900). I like being able to reach for my used Glock 20 or Glock 23 that I paid maybe $400 a piece for and having them run like champs to only need to be cleaned when I get home, and then left lighting oiled for the next go.

I'm only going to get a Glock 21 if I can find a Gen 2, Gen 2s are my favorite (I hate finger grooves). I know the Spartan can be fixed but I hate that I have to put all that work into to get it to run right when I bought my Glock 23 off an old man who had his sit in his tackle box for a year straight having the errant round popped through it and never cleaned. To only get a mild cleaning and bore scrubbing, to then run like a champ and have almost no issues since that weren't ammo related.

If you found a 1911 that works for you, more power to you, if you like 1911s, I get it, I still do, I'm just done buying anymore unless I somehow get an awesome deal and am prepared for another range toy. I'm not up for dropping $1,000 and praying the gun works right and doesn't need to go back to manufacturer or have a smith pay it some love and attention. Especially when I can get a used Ruger GP100 4" for $400 or less and have it go bang all day. And then with my remaining $600 go and buy a bunch of ammo or used Glock and still have money for ammo.
 
Those who expect their firearms to fail and just accept it as a quirk of that particular platform are, in my opinion, doing a great deal of dis-service to the rest of the firearms community. Stop accepting this, and demand better.

I've dubbed them "enablers". You don't have to be an "expert" to expect a 1911 pistol to run without malfunction straight out of the box (and, no, this doesn't mean that you still don't have to test-fire any new gun with a sufficient number of different loads to verify reliability if you plan on employing the gun for self-defense). The car engine break-in analogy is a false one: break-ins for car motors have everything to do with possible longevity benefits and absolutely nothing to do with whether the car runs or not.

The first thing the enablers do to pardon a new pistol that doesn't run right is to blame everything but the pistol: bad or too cheap ammunition, bad magazines, feed ramp needs polishing, not enough lube or too much lube, recoil spring too soft or too heavy, "limp-wristing", etc. (which isn't to say that it's not possible that some of these things could be a factor in a malfunctioning pistol, only to argue that they often become scapegoats for excusing a poorly made pistol).

Then, of course, there is the idea that the 1911 pistol just requires more patience, more "break-in" round count and a higher level of expertise if you ever expect one to be reliable from the get-go. You need to tweak it and fluff it and buff it and, apparently, pray to it and to sacrifice a virgin chicken or a bleating goat or two to appease the 1911 gods. More excuses that would probably turn J.B. Browning's stomach if he heard them.

I've purchased, owned and shot more than a couple of new 1911 pistols that were 100% reliable from the start (and still are). Admittedly, my experience has been limited to only three brands over a period of fifty plus years, mostly Colts but, during the past few years, also Smith & Wesson and SIG 1911s.
I did buy a new Colt Government Model in 1968 that was a real stinker to get running right and actually never got to be totally reliable-but the rest of them ran without a hiccup straight from the box. And there's absolutely no reason why any customer, "expert" or novice alike, after spending upwards to a thousand dollars and often much more, should not only expect but demand the same kind of performance. It's not too much to ask.
 
Don't get why one would feel obligated to like anything, much less a type of gun. I've always considered the 1911 to be archaic relative to modern handguns. Yeah, they can be stupid accurate but outside of competition the accuracy advantage of a 1911 over a glock is meaningless. I do appreciate their history but for a gun to be shot there are far more important things in my book.
 
Thus far, my cheapie RIA 1911 has not missed firing even once (I have kept count) in the last 928 rounds. I reload my own (MBC "softball"s) . it was much less reliable with 200g flat nosed.

A 1911 set up correctly is very reliable.
 
Nowadays 1911s need 1000 round break in period, springs replaced every 1500 rounds, dripping wet with lube, round nose bullets, best mags manufactured on earth, and a pair of vice grips to run properly. Sorry I couldn't resist. 1911s are to me the best looking semiautos and most accurate in my hands but they are just not out the box bet your life on pistols. Like posted earlier, everyone and their grandad is making 1911s these day in the masses so it comes with consequences. Nowadays I trust the likes of glock, walther, m&p, hk and sig p series over 1911s for ccw and home defense. 1911s are my favorite pistol in case I didn't tell you but they have a different role in my life these days. Still there is nothing like a fine tuned 1911. If you have one never let it go
 
I only have extensive experience with one 1911. It's a recent manufacture Colt Gold Cup. It has had dozens of doublefeed jams with both stock and aftermarket mags. It's running great, now, but it has jammed more times than all my other handguns combined.

I still don't know what caused these jams. Live round in the chamber, another one trying to join it. They're supposedly caused by magazines, but it happened with 3 different brands of magazine, and now it has stopped.
 
FWIW, you can go buy a 100% GI issue 1911 and it will work every time you pull the trigger. It won't be any more accurate than a Glock or M&P, but it will work. However, expecting to get a finely tuned tack driver that runs 100% and looks fantastic doing it for $400 is just not realistic at all. Those days are long gone.

As for "out of the box ready to run, I've only ever bought one gun that was literally ready to shoot out of the box, a Noveske Rogue Hunter. Upon disassembly, it was cleaned and properly lubricated and ready to fire. That includes Glocks, which should be field stripped, removal of the copper anti-sieze and lubricate to spec. Sure, it might work reliably even if you don't, but there's no guarantee.

My Colt Rail Gun 1911 was purchased used for $800. So far it's digested about 3,500 rounds of JHP reloads without a single malfunction. Not...even...one. My S&W 1911PD, bought for $825 is the same, albeit with around 1,500 rounds of mixed FMJ, JHP, reloads and factory ammo. No malfs since day 1.

I might purchase another Colt or Smith 1911 and need to tune an extractor, replace a spring or magazine, who knows? I am not enabling anything by accepting this. I simply understand the platform and what's required to make it run efficiently.

It took Randy Lee considerable time and engineering to figure out why late Gen 3 Glocks were having failure to extract and failure to eject issues. It took some time for Ruger to diagnose and repair...well... a ton of issues with several of their guns. The same goes for S&W M&P's with slide stops, mag catches and 9mm accuracy woes when it came out.

No mechanical contraption designed and built by man is ever going to have a 100% reliability rating. Knowing and understanding how and why something works and what causes it to fail is never a bad idea for an end user. I don't care what you shoot, it's worth knowing if you're truly a student of the gun.
 
It's not the design. Its the manufacturer. "1911's" is such a vague term anymore that it's almost inappropriate to use in itself to describe a specific gun. You can't just lump them all into one generic "1911" label anymore....More correct imo to say "a Colt 1911" or "a Kimber 1911" or "a Sig 1911" or "a RIA 1911" or "a Spartan 1911"....each brings a different level of gun to the table. You can't, say, buy only budget 1911's and then hate the design because whatever manufacturer you got yours from has substandard quality control

A correctly manufactured 1911 doesn't have the issues you are describing. Colt's are usually spot on.

If out of the box reliability is crucial, and you only have $400 to spend, get a glock.
 
I only have extensive experience with one 1911. It's a recent manufacture Colt Gold Cup. It has had dozens of doublefeed jams with both stock and aftermarket mags. It's running great, now, but it has jammed more times than all my other handguns combined.

I still don't know what caused these jams. Live round in the chamber, another one trying to join it. They're supposedly caused by magazines, but it happened with 3 different brands of magazine, and now it has stopped.

See, that would bother me. How do you know that it won't happen again? The way to know is to know why it malfed in the first place, and what changed to make it stop.
 
I still don't know what caused these jams. Live round in the chamber, another one trying to join it. They're supposedly caused by magazines, but it happened with 3 different brands of magazine, and now it has stopped.
More likely an extractor problem.

http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=6311

I'm all for guys giving up on the 1911. If it's not for you, get something else.
 
Gee was it ever mention what ammunition was used??:confused:

Ammunition and magazines. If it was new tight gun and crap ammo was used it may not cycle.

I will admit that the 1911 platform is not my favorite but I do have a few nice ones and they all work just fine.
 
I have owned 3 different 1911's from Sig Sauer and one from Kimber. Never a burp from any of them. I grant that the Kimber is about 10 years of age, made back before they had some reported QC problems but the Sigs have all been in the last 2 years. Perfect right out of the box. :D

Go figure
 
Anybody notice that we seldom see malfunction complaints about 1911 platform pistols that were made to the original government/Colt blueprints and material specifications


I have a loose-as-heck Norinco 1911A1 and a Ruger SR1911. Both work flawlessly now but both needed some work to get to this point. The Nork especially is incredible value for the money.

1911 is a half-product. Relic. Sweet when it works.
 
I am sorry to hear that you are giving up on 1911s simply because you experienced problems with several of them. You are always going to find some new guns that require adjustment to function properly regardless of the type of platform or make. It's no different than buying a new auto and having to take it back to the dealer within days to have something fixed. While I shoot a variety of handguns, I find the 1911 to be reliable, accurate, and fun to shoot. Most problems with any firearm are minor and easily fixed by a good gunsmith.
 
I will readily admit that the 1911 is far and away my favorite platform. I wish I had more and someday I will.
Different strokes for different folks. I hope you find a platform that you like. I know there's all kinds of pressure to love 1911s, but not all guns inspire everyone. As long as you're putting lead down range and having fun doing it is what matters.
 
I guess I've been lucky -- I've owned half a dozen 1911s (1 Springfield Armory, 1 Les Baer, and 4 Colts) over the last twenty years and not one of them has been anything but totally reliable with any and all ammo I've put through it. They've all been full sized guns from the best makers of 1911s though so that probably has something to do with it.

It's a shame you've had bad experiences with the platform. It really is a great gun, but there are a lot of makers who have departed from the original specs these days, so there probably are a lot of unreliable ones out there. Even the good makers can probably turn out a lemon now and again, and God knows, Colt had its days of poor quality control, but one of my 1911s is a very recent Wiley Clapp model, and I couldn't be happier with it.
 
I'm conflicted on this topic. I love, love, love the 1911 and clones. My first one was a parts gun on an Essex frame and while not super accurate, gobbled any and all loads without blinking... the two I have now, Charles Daly and a RI are super accurate, but only will feed hardball.... my Ruger 345, Glock 21 and Sig 220 all feed anything and everything and never miss a lick... so - once again I find myself sitting on the fence...:cool:
 
Anybody notice that we seldom see malfunction complaints about 1911 platform pistols that were made to the original government/Colt blueprints and material specifications prior to about 1975 or '80?

It's the later guns, made by lord knows how many manufacturers who tweek things to make the pistol tighter or easier to make. In itself, tightness isn't bad, but it requires careful attention by an experienced 'smith that's seldom seen in a mass produced product.

What we see today are pistols that (sort of) look like the real thing, but aren't. Most can be made to work, but don't expect it out-of-the-box.

A sad situation, but that's the way it is.

I believe that modern day 1911 manufacturers are trying to turn the 1911 into something it was not meant to be, accurate. It was meant to be "combat accurate" I always found it silly that 1911 makers strive for 1" at 25 feet. Who cares if it can do that? A handgun is not meant to be a precision target weapon. It personal protection tool at short distance and that is what Browning designed and going for accuracy violates the weapons design principle.

I would love to hear what John Browning would say if he came back from the dead and someone had to explain to him that they took his design and tried to make it as accurate as possible. He sure as heck would wonder why.
 
I recently bought a full sized Cimarron 1911 built to the exact specs of the 1918 model, tiny sights, etc. Original ejection port. Plus it had one of the best, highly polished blue finishes I've ever seen. It functioned perfectly, reloads, WWII ammo, new JHP, new FMJ, on and on. And didn't care what magazines I used, and I've got a box full.

I intended it for EDC, however it was just too long. Foolishly I traded it in on a new American Classic Commander with all sorts of modern stuff. Worked fine with the supplied ACT magazine, but didn't like Chip McCormick magazines at all (several failure to feed episodes). But when I went to clean it, the slide stop wouldn't come out. You would think MetroArms would at least have tried one disassemble before shipping it out.
 
It's too bad you've given up, especially after the last experience when better mags might have solved the problem. I've loved 1911's since I held one in the 80's and have 7. I also love my revos and XD's but 1911's will always be #1 in my book. I'd try again if I were you.
 
I assume most folks don't buy 1911s just to be like the "cool kids" so something about the design must be inherently appealing. Even folks who give up on 1911s usually lament the fact that operating issues drove them away from a gun they otherwise liked.

It surprises me that most current 1911s do work well. The design is proven, but it is interpreted with slight differences by dozens of manufacturers. And many folks seem to think that the first order of business after buying a 1911 is to change out some or all of the small parts with replacements from any of hundreds of parts sources.

At any rate, there are lots of guns that shoot .45 ACP - buy what works for you.
 
Several Colts and 1 Dan Wesson none of them ever a problem

Para Ord and Kimber Got rid of quickly. I trust Colts before any other brand I can afford a Colt So can't speak about Brown and Wilson

I have 1 of the 1st American Classic in country and its been fine . But I have only shot maybe 500 or 600 rounds thru it.

I carry my Colt Defender more than any other 1911 I have.
 
VALKMAN - somewhat OT: so you live in Pahrump, NV. Seems like your town is one of the main import/repair firearms centers in the country. How many are there in Pahrump, anyway? And what a strange name - do you know its origin?
 
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