How many actually train in striking techniques for creating distance

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gym

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I answering another post I realized we almost never talk about creating distance if you suddenly find yourself being rushed by a bad guy.
I know most who have carried a long time know that a gun can be disabled if someone gets their hands on the slide or cylinder and prevents it from moving.
It does fit the criteria I believe, if not and it goes sideways feel free to remove. I don't want to talk about karate or boxing, or any other form of self defense, just the ability to create space if need be, and the awareness to new shooters that it is indeed important to have enough space to engage your weapon. It is something to keep in mind if and when you encounter a potential situation where you feel you may be forced to draw your gun.
It should be foremost in ones mind if that ever does happen, in order to stop someone from taking your gun from you, especially if older, weak, or small in stature, as you can easily find you just handed someone a gun just by presenting it.
Thoughts?
Feel free to add any other implements you carry, like a Tac light, or baton, knife etc.
 
In addition to shadowboxing,sparring,heavy bag work,etc... I like to practice striking off the "fence" with a lot of eye jabs and often times striking combos to follow up with afterwards. That and spending a lot of time working on getting up off my back, not getting taken down, and fighting in the clinch. Also shooting while in the clinch from a #2 position.
 
I had trained in martial arts for a few years before I volunteered to be an Air Force Security Forces augmented, so I had a decent grasp on actual striking techniques, but it was the SF that taught me to integrate firearms into the mix.

From chest strikes/ shoves, to knee strikes/ kicks, eye gouges, strikes to the nose, etc. All are a good means to distract an aggressor and put some distance between you, and give you the time to make a decision on your next action.

I've always felt hand to hand combat training is essential for firearms training. Too many people I've encountered think just having a gun an shooting it occasionally is enough.
 
I think there are 2 things here.

One is doing this without a firearm involved and the other is with the firearm in play.

Most will have the firearm in their dominant hand which may throw off what they have trained to do unarmed.

I have practiced making that distance and I think it needs to be practiced with the firearm in play. Keep you from shooting yourself in that time of need and allows you to understand how the dynamics will change having you strong hand filled and having to protect the weapon.
 
Ohen makes a good point. Most people train to strike with a dominant hand, which may be filled with gun metal when you need to strike. As a southpaw, I find myself generally at an advantage against right handers in terms of weapon retention and off hand strikes that go with it. Striking with a non dominant hand isn't something people ted to focus on in training, other than maybe as a follow up 1-2 combo.
I loved the off hand jab as a distraction and lead in to a harder strong side hit.
 
I've moved this thread to S,T,&T because it is really about tactics and training.

I used to believe that a primary concern should be creating space to draw a sidearm, but I've come to believe that this falls into the category of, "When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail." What changed my mind was understanding the Truller Drill (21 foot rule), training with Michael Janich, and actually having been in fights that would be considered CQB.

If you are unable to escape, due to being trapped/penned in, I think you have 2 options:

1. I believe that the primary response, if you are physically able, at those distances, is to go to empty hand techniques or even a bladed weapon. The reason is that if they are already attacking you, they have the advantage and striking them hard enough to stop or deflect their direction of travel is harder than many think. If you couldn't run away to begin with, you won't have much room to "create" even if you could.

2. The next option would be to use your support arm to both protect your head and ward off a attempt to entangle your arms while drawing your gun to low retention to place shots into their lower body, while closing with your attacker.
 
I had a feeling from reading the OP that this thread started in another subforum :D.

we almost never talk about creating distance

We talk about Craig Douglas (aka Southnarc) pretty often here - his MUC/ECQC is pretty much tailor made for such encounters.

This is a repost of a .pdf that's been around for years, but it's a good introduction...

http://www.triangletactical.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/sncontacts.pdf

One evolution of 'the fence' as shown above that Craig added is the eye flick, an old technique that actually dates back a good while - http://bowieknifefightsfighters.blogspot.com/2011/03/another-note-on-spanish-knife-fighting.html

That is one way of addressing the time/space issue of unexpected sudden proximity...

See Craig's site at http://shivworks.com/, if you can get to ECQC, that will address a lot of your concerns, I think.
 
I second what Fred Fuller posted. I can't recommend ECQC enough. Totally changed my approach to training. His MUC(managing unknown contacts) material is golden and such an overlooked part of training. I was training bjj regularly shortly after that course and haven't looked back since.
 
I like that eye flick, I also like turning the weapon as soon as clearing the holster with the slide away from the body, only if the bad guy is going for the gun. I have practiced shooting from that position, but don't recommend it to anyone unless they are supervised. You also need to watch where your other hand is, or you can have a real bad accident.
 
I believe you don't necessarily need to create distance in order to bring your tool of choice into the fight. Can strikes create an opportunity? Absolutely. So can the SN's material Fred mentioned. So can proper movement. As always it depends on the context of the fight. I think it's important to be as well rounded as possible in all of these areas. It is not a one methodology can handle all scenarios.
 
I train a lot of striking/H2H, but not to create distance. I want to eliminate distance, I want to stand where they were standing. The best way to create injuries is by using all your body weight in your strike. Launch yourself at them, stick something hard and pointy out and have that connect with something soft and vulnerable on them.

Of course, if you launch your body at them, and say, slam your forearm into their throat...they will be blasted to the rear. Either stand, draw and shoot, or move with them and finish the threat with your body.
 
it is part of the 'what-if' game that subconsciously plays continuously

as well as exits, i am always seeing skip out directions. and las we differentiate between
cover and concealment, so to do i see what can be run through, over, under or pushed aside vs that which blocks movement.
 
Train others in open hand ww2 skills along with some empty hand in conjunction with the blades [ small folders and straights like a bowie ].

Have a Lake Mary, Fla course in August this year in h2h/defensive edged weapons that's been held for the last 7 years, well received and we cover creating time and distance before drawing a firearm or knife [ if it's a situation that's in your face when it starts ].

We also cover closing the distance and jamming their attack, thus creating a struggle instead of a continued attack.
 
When teaching a concealed carry class I always recommend that students *also* take the time to invest in some practical hand to hand training.

In many states (my state of IL included) there are two distinct levels of force which you can resort to.

The litmus test for "force" (generic) here is much lower than "force which is capable of causing death or great bodily injury" (lethal).

If I'm shoved by a guy I can't draw a gun, but I can sure as heck defend myself with my arms, legs, elbows, knees, etc. Same goes for someone trying to steal my lawnmower out of the shed, but who is otherwise unarmed. I can physically defend my property but cannot escalate to a lethal force level. Gun has to stay holstered.

IF, and only IF, there are certain conditions, can lethal levels of force ever come in to play. In my state, there's really two conditions for that; stopping a forcible felony (which has a strict legal definition), or to prevent death or serious bodily injury.

Now.. a 90 year old man who is physically assaulted by a young muscle bound man could draw long before I could; if one punch connects he could be dead. So "disparity of force" applies too.

It's a very gray, murky area for sure.

I train my students to only rely on a firearm for an absolute last resort, expend all other options available before ever reaching for a gun. De-escalate, evade, escape, avoid the situation.. we talk about practical application of common sense.

Same concepts applies to normal force; the two types of training blend very well together even though they aren't typically taught together.
 
I train in Krav Maga, and we work with knives and guns. Hopefully I never need to use it, but we learn how to control and finish if a weapon comes into play.
 
Sap or black jack is the choice for me. One properly placed blow to, say, the collar bone or knee, will not only create distance it can end the confrontation.
 
The paucity of responses to the OP (and to many other recent threads that touch on topics of weapons retention, physical fitness and unarmed self-defense) rather lead me to believe that far too many folks who regularly carry a firearm for self-defense tend to consider that their only defensive option and train accordingly ...

Although I feel that it's totally irresponsible to carry a gun and not train in any other defensive tactics (most especially H2H and weapons retentions), age or physical disability permitting of course, I fear that for most gun-owners, their focus is only on using the gun.
 
I think most people seem to think everyone is able to fight, and that simply isn't true.

Firstly, I don't knife fight, everyone bleeds in a knife fight and I don't like getting cut.

I have arthritis in my hands and knees so I no longer have the hand strength to fight effectively.

However I can shoot effectively from retention, and I can be aware of my surroundings to minimize my chances of getting in that situation.
 
for most gun-owners, their focus is only on using the gun

It's true that a lot of people seem to be overly 'gun-centric' as far as their tactics are concerned. But there are more trainers emphasizing realistic approaches to close in self defense these days, using blended methods of hand/blade/firearm, than there ever have been. The tide may not be in full flood on this one, but it is changing.
 
This is why situational awareness is so important, but I do know from experience that it isnt always enough.

Yeah, couldn't agree more. I've had to defend myself twice in the last 20 years. Once against a family member (step father), and once against my best friend.

You just don't see that stuff coming, generally.

In the case of my friend we were in the garage, he was drunk, and the fight was on me before I knew I was in a fight. One minute we're taking, the next minute I'm tackled wondering what the hell is going on. We grappled for a second, and I ended it with an elbow to the jaw as he was drawing his knife from his sheath. He lost two teeth, and a friend.

Could have ended very different.
 
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