Lead bullet problems continue (MBC)

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Have you slugged your barrel? If the forcing cone is not building up lead but from the frame to the muzzle are showing lead deposits then I would guess you have a frame choke. That would allow the gases to blow by the bullet and foul the barrel from the beyond the point of the choke.
 
I shot CAS and have shot thousands of MBC bullets....all in a .38sp....Ruger Vaquero. I use Clays powder and use a midrange load....3.0 grains. I haven't had a leading problem with their bullets. I've also loaded and shot several thousand 230gr MBC bullets out of a 1911...again without the major leading that you have described. I use 3.7 gr Clays...a midrange load.

I've also shot about 500 95gr .380 MBC out of a S&W Bodyguard .380..used Universal Clays powder, midrange load and not much leading.

Now I have not shot any SWC bullets of theirs.....I wonder if its something specifically related to the bullet shape, not the bullet hardness?
 
I feel for you, I have a really strange problem with one of my new high dollar revolvers that I can't figure out either but that's for another thread.

I think if I had your problem I would try shooting lead bullets that were much softer than 18brn. I have shot a lot of hard cast and have always had leading but not to the degree that you apparently have.

I have better luck shooting wheel weight lead than anything else. It's around 8 brn and I like it about .002"over bore. Other than that I have miserable luck with store bought lead bullets.

I have about 1200 MBC bullets sitting on my shelf that is sitting there for the same reason. They're 18brn also. .38 and 9mm both.

Shot them through 3 different revolvers and two different pistols respectively with the same leading results. That's why their still sitting on my shelf.

Like I said, I have miserable luck with store bought lead bullets. Their to hard unless you load for bear.
That's my experience with them. Hope someone can help you with them.
 
I had problems with leading in my Super Blackhawk Bisley Hunter 44 mag at first with the MBC 240 grain bullets. Decided it might be copper fouling left in the rough barrel stripping the lead, so I went through a cleaning regimen with JB bore scrub to try and smooth the barrel and accelerate break-in. I suppose it worked. I have shot hundreds of the MBC 240's using 300 MP at 1350 to 1550 fps with hardly any lead fouling whatsoever.
 
One thing I am considering with my SBH's is using one of the bore burnishing bullets to smooth up the barrel. I have not committed to it though.
 
Shooter14 said:
I had problems with leading in my Super Blackhawk Bisley Hunter 44 mag at first with the MBC 240 grain bullets. Decided it might be copper fouling left in the rough barrel stripping the lead, so I went through a cleaning regimen with JB bore scrub to try and smooth the barrel and accelerate break-in. I suppose it worked. I have shot hundreds of the MBC 240's using 300 MP at 1350 to 1550 fps with hardly any lead fouling whatsoever.
Click to expand...

I had exactly the same thought, and tried that too. It didn't work in my case, but that (copper fouling) often is the culprit
 
Bevel base cast bullets suck! Besides this, your two Rugers may also be cursed with "thread-chokes." This is where the barrel is compressed as it is screwed into the frame. I have two Rugers (Sp101 and SBH) that had thread chokes of .002+. Chamber throats were correct size but the barrel inside the frame squeezed the bullets down an extra .002" then they had blow-by leading in the remainder of the bore. My .44 Rem Mag SBH had .432 chamber throats and a .430 groove diameter bore but a .4275 diameter thread-choke. .432 diameter cast bullets leaded like crazy. The Sp101 only had a .0015 choke but leaded badly with cast bullets. Both guns shot jacketed bullets fine. Once I fire-lapped out the thread chokes both guns shot very accurately lead or jacketed bullets and without fouling.
 
Well, I think I am out of ideas w/MBC and leading. Shot some SWC thru my 686 today, 6 grains of Green Dot...lead from end to end of the barrel (same result in a GP100). Shot some 240 grainers thru my Redhawk...11.5 gr Herco left no lead, 22gr IMR4227 left very little (if any)...20gr 2400 fouled the barrel end to end...no rhyme or reason....I think I am going back to softer lead and jacketed bullets...
 
I use the same molds MBC uses (Magma), but I cast almost all my bullets at BHN 12, and get no leading, and we're talking about thousands of rounds per year. I think your bullet is just too hard.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
At least three people mentioned possibility of a bore constriction. One having similar experiences with some of your handguns and posting his solution. Did you spend a couple minutes checking this out?

You say you are all out of ideas. Maybe you missed something really obvious?

Fwiw my 686 has a constriction.
 
Something to consider, metal composition maybe like too much tin will cause. Not impossible.
 
GLOOB said:
At least three people mentioned possibility of a bore constriction. One having similar experiences with some of your handguns and posting his solution. Did you spend a couple minutes checking this out?

You say you are all out of ideas. Maybe you missed something really obvious?

Fwiw my 686 has a constriction.
Click to expand...

Yes, none of the 3 revolvers have a measurable constriction, and all lead badly with MBC bullets.
 
I had the same problem with the MBC bullets. Solved it with the plated X-treme 158 FP. Cleaned it yesterday; almost no smut on the pistol and two patches cleaned the bore. Perhaps the softer bullets would solve the problem, or perhaps full-bore loads would make the difference, but I'm not going to get into casting. No more than I shoot it is cheaper to buy plated for target practice.
 
I load 158gr MBC "Action!" bullets over 6.0 gr Unique in 357 cases. According to Alliant, this is good for around 1034 fps. This is a mild-recoiling load, as 357 goes.

Cast bullets sometimes require some troubleshooting. There's no rocket science, but it can take a good deal of patience. Most of us don't have a shooting range in the backyard.

OP: if you let those bullets sit around long enough, you will probably figure it out one day.
 
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slug the barrels, we cant even begin to help you without knowing what the barrels measure at
also try with a softer lead anywhere from 10-12bhn
 
Several posts have been deleted. Treat each other with respect and help the OP if you can.
 
I think that BHN is too hard.

If you have a bunch of those left over, it might be a good time to try powdercoating. $5 worth of powdercoat from Harbor Freight, a coffee can for 'tumbling' and a toaster oven will stop that leading. You would have to soak those bullets in paint thinner to remove the old lube.
 
JR,

Have you tried different extremes in terms of hardness?

What about Lasercast? Do they also lead?
What about Penn Bullets? Do they also lead?
What about RimRock? Do they also lead?

Is this unique to only MBC or to lead in general?

I am starting to wonder since it is multiple guns involved.

As an aside, I loaded up a few thousand jacketeds with max loads of 2400 for my 357 SBH's. My 7.5" has a noticeable constriction and the 5" is ok. I am just going to blast them with some jacketed then get a bore polish kit to take out the constriction.
 
Peter M. Eick said:
JR,

Have you tried different extremes in terms of hardness?

What about Lasercast? Do they also lead?
What about Penn Bullets? Do they also lead?
What about RimRock? Do they also lead?

Is this unique to only MBC or to lead in general?

I am starting to wonder since it is multiple guns involved.

As an aside, I loaded up a few thousand jacketeds with max loads of 2400 for my 357 SBH's. My 7.5" has a noticeable constriction and the 5" is ok. I am just going to blast them with some jacketed then get a bore polish kit to take out the constriction.
Click to expand...

I have used various brands, over the years, of softer lead bullets up to ~12 BHN, without leading, using the same loads. I occasionally got light leading with really hot magnum loads and softer lead with H110 or 2400, but not like now. This is the first batch of "hardcast" bullets I have tried, and they lead in both hot and mild loads.

I do have some Oregon Trail 158gr SWC to try...they are even harder, so my expectation is that I'll get similar results.
 
So no (minor) problems with soft bullets. That tells me the lead is not bumping up enough. I agree Lasercast will be likely worse.

So you can basically shoot a swaged bullet like a speer or a remington with little to no problems but not the traditional hardcasts.

I would be really interested to see if you have a constriction in the barrel and the thread point. Off the top of my head that is the best I can come up with for why hardcasts won't work well. My theory is that the hardcasts bump up in the throat, get swaged down at the constriction but can bump up again afterwards. This is truly a guess though.

The easy answer is shoot lighter loads with swaged (soft) lead and move on. The harder is try to sort out why. Leading with hard casts is normally a fit problem and so we need to look back at the fit carefully.
 
I will try the harder bullets this week and go from there. If leading is worse or the same, I'll go back and again go over the measurements carefully.

I did slug the muzzle end and breech end separately in 2 of the revolvers when checking for a constriction, and if there is one, I cannot measure it, nor can I feel it. Measurements indicated at least a .001" interference fit between bullet/bore in both.

Double-checking cannot hurt however
 
Have you tried tumble lubing them with Lee alox yet? I had severe leading with the MBC target grade 200 grn SWC bullets in 2 1911 pistols and a xdm. I found elsewhere to try tumble lubing them and it cured my leading problems.
Bore is clean even after a few hundred rounds.
 
OK, I tried some Oregon Trail bullets today (because I had some), and got what I expected...bad leading in every load but one.

The pics show the severity after only 6 rounds of 11.5gr 2400 under a 158gr SWC from Oregon Trail, but I got similar results with all the following (all in Starline Brass with std primers):

11.5gr 2400, 158gr SWC -Oregon Trail
11.5gr 2400, 158gr SWC - MBC
8gr Power Pistol, 158gr SWC - MBC
6gr Green Dot, 158gr SWC - Oregon Trail
6gr Green Dot, 158gr SWC - MBC

However, I got no leading (or very little) from 17.3gr 300-MP using the Oregon Trail bullet (but I do with the MBC bullet in the same load :cuss:). The 17.3gr load is hot, so I am assuming that my other loads did not provide enough pressure to prevent gas blowby.

Interestingly, the "book values" for pressure on the above-listed loads are approximately:

2400 --> 25,000 CUP
Green Dot --> 34,000 CUP
Power Pistol --> 33,000 CUP (estimated from a JSP load)
300-MP --> unknown (of course :banghead:)

According to MBC, that 25k CUP load with Alliant 2400 should be close to optimum for their 18 BHN bullet. I have found no load, hot or mild, that works with their 18 BHN bullet, but have used their softer ones with success (primarily in 45 Colt).

I guess my experiment is over. I'm going back to softer lead when these are gone. I suppose I can use the Oregon trail bullets for VERY hot loads w/out leading.

255nshz.jpg vsffae.jpg 2lcnq6d.jpg
 
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