Factory ammunition accuracy

So how do these wizards get a cartridge to perform in just about any rifle/pistol under the sun? Do they have a vast array of firearms to test with? Or is my original question off-base. I'd be annoyed if factory loads didn't shoot well, especially at current prices.

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As far as I'm concerned they don't get them to preform in just about every rifle or pistol under the sun. If they did I wouldn't be assembling all my own ammunition.

If they could equal the accuracy I get from my worked up loads I would probably be buying more factory ammunition.

I can't stand it when I start shooting a box of factory loads in a handgun or rifle at the range and all I hear is different pitches and feel different recoil from the factory loads .

I won't tolerate that from my own loads and sure won't tolerate it from factory stuff that costs me a whole lot more money to acquire.

I quit buying factory loads a long time ago, (35 years) because of accuracy problems and have never gone back.

Put your seatbelts on, Ihave to go practice.

This is the man reason I got in to reloading to start with. When I started in the 70's the best factory ammo only gave me 2-3" groups at 100 yrds with a Rem 7mm Mag. My reloads give be 1 ragged hole at that distance.

Exactly, There is no way in fairness to the ammunition companies that they can make any ammo that will shoot accurately in all guns. It's just impossible. They do a pretty good job making them fit all guns and being reliable for hunting with, and there is without a doubt certain guns that fire certain ammo more accurately then others, but in all of them, it isn't going to happen. There are to many variables.

The thing to remember here is that every gun will have a slightly different load that it will max out with. Once you begin to handload you will find THE load for YOUR gun. Factory ammunition will never be able to do that. I have found THE load for every one of my guns. Now I only load that load for each one. If I miss it's my fault.

I have had a mixed bag with factory ammo. In a couple of target guns I have I have had incredible accuracy with a couple of factory loads. In most of my hunting guns 1-2 MOA was all I could achieve with factory ammo which was very easy to improve upon. In most cases I was able to reload my .270's and 30-06 guns with several loads to shoot right at 1 MOA which was fine for me given the purpose and hunting ranges I typically shoot. In one case I am still sticking with one factory cartridge, Fiocchi .223 40gr Vmax which shoots in the .400 land at 100 yards. I just wish I could figure out what it is loaded with so I could work it up but for now I will just keep buying it and smiling. In a second case I have had really good accuracy >1MOA from Winchester 90PEP in my 25-06. This load would shoot right around .75 MOA consistently but I really don't shoot this gun much anymore.... What I have always been surprised at was how easy it was to beat most factory ammo but like most of us.... improving past a certain point usually much below 1MOA was a ton of work. It sometimes took me 2 years and many bullets and powder combinations to chase down .5-.75 loads and many guns will just never get there unless you swap barrels or have access to a talented gunsmith which before I got married I had the money to do but now I have to be satisfied with the gun as it comes out of the box or the little things I can do at home on a tight budget.

Some of the better premium stuff is every bit as accurate as my handloads. But @ $50/ 20 rounds I cannot afford them. I can duplicate the premium ammo with my handloads for less than the cost of budget ammo.

SAAMI Standards Help

So how do these wizards get a cartridge to perform in just about any rifle/pistol under the sun?

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Standards set by SAAMI. http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/index.cfm?page=CC SAAMI Note

** Please note: A technical issue is causing these PDFs to only function properly (with functional links) in Internet Explorer. We are working to rectify to problem. **

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There ammo standards seem to be better than there website.

I started hand loading as a teenager quite a few years ago, and accordingly don't shoot much factory ammo. But I gotta tell you, the times I do I find it to be quite accurate. I've not had any of the bad experiences some of the other posters have.

I could describe several examples of my good fortunes with factory ammo, but the one that sticks in my craw the most is my M700 25-06 purchased in the early 1980's. I went through several boxes of green box Rem ammo to acquire brass for loading. The 87 gr. HP's have been the most accurate ammo I've ever shot in that rifle.

Laphroaig

I think it's only been the past 10 years or so that factory ammo has been very accurate. I attribute that to the fact the factory ammo manufacturers are now using premium bullets which accounts for a lot of the accuracy. Prior to that if you wanted a premium bullet you had to load your own. It's good for those who don't reload you can get a premium bullet and much better accuracy from a factory load these days....

My friend relates a story of factory ammo that he simply could not get to shoot accurately in his 30-06.

One day on the range he is shooting and cannot get better that 1.5" groups, convinced that the ammo is not capable of better he contemplates packing up when his shooting buddy points out that there is a long range Junior National Champion on range.

So after a while he walks over and asks the youngster to shoot his rifle with said ammo in the belief that this would put the matter beyond a question of a doubt. The youngster proceeds a print a 3 shot clover leaf all cutting each other. Huge lesson learnt on the day, the workman has since ceased blaming the tools.

"We as handloaders spend a lot of time and money with one or 2 rifles or pistols and a wide range of powders/bullets/primers to find the sweet spot with our handloads."

Well...... not all of us reload to that standard. I am quite satisfied with my reloads that all go bang in the various handguns I own. I have never 'customized a load to the gun' nor do I plan on trying to contrive them for everything in my safe.

As to "accuracy", that is a pretty vague term. All my ammo, factory or reloaded, shoots to my requirement of MOD (Minute of Dead). Stays on a paper plate at 25 FEET is more than sufficient to MY needs. YMMV and that's fine too and why that ice cream joint sells all those flavors.

I agree with Hickok45 in this regard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVzSAm5VhfE

I haven't shot much factory ammo in the last 40 years, but that is why I started reloading. People that reloaded told me that I could make better ammo. That became true, back then you couldn't get a premium bullet in a .25/06 from the factory. I like the Nosler Partitions and loaded those to shoot better than the Remington Corelokts that were available. Best of both worlds. My neighbor just bought a new Remingon model 7 in .22/250, it shoots 1 1/2" groups with factory ammo, I am confident that we will get it to shoot way better than that with reloads made to fit his rifle.

While I completely agree there are some times the rifle just can't do 1" or less groups @100 yards. 20 years or more ago the factory hunting rifles just didn't produce that kind of accuracy, these days the current corp of hunters are spoiled. If a entry level hunting rifle doesn't do 1" or less @100 yards the rifle in no good in their opinion. Funny thing is, out ancestors were able to put meat on the table with rifles that couldn't do 3 MOA on their best day and that was good then. It's amazing how current shooters expect target accuracy from an entry level hunting rifle today.

My point is, shoot YOUR rifle and know what you can and can't do with it and you will hit what you shoot at.

When I have used factory ammo, I got mixed results. One box would give me some 3/8 inch groups then 1.5 inch, basically the same box was very inconsistent. This was from several manufacturers, for different cartridges. I usually get a box of factory ammo when I buy a new gun to see what velocity is obtained, I also see what the groups are as well. I have never had anywhere near as consistent results from factory ammo, as with hand loads. I have not used any match ammo though.

Well I think Remington makes fire crackers because they shoot like crap. I don't think Federal is much better. But at one time I shot Hornady in my 30-06 & it shot same hole so close that it was hard to tell there was more then one shot at 100yards. It shot 3" at 300 but my scope wasn't great ether so what was me & what was the rifle I don't know. Last box of Hornady sucked & the best group may have been 1"@100. There is a stranded for twist, grain, & fps so it does well in all rifles. I can shoot my ammo in my sons rifle & you can't see the difference even with mine having the longer barrel. However has may do well with a load that is terrible in mine. I'm guessing the shorter barrel is more forgiving with harmonics.

I train my wife & kids by loading their riffle for them. They don't know if it is a live round or I just put a fired case in there. I can then pick out their mistakes & correct them. The more mistakes the more inert cases they get fed to them.

Another quick story. I seen a guy a the range throwing a fit about the piece of junk Colt He had just bought. He wanted to sell it cheap. I asked if I could fire it before I bought it. I used his ammo & went to give the guy his money but after seeing my target he refused to sell it to me.

Is factory ammunition expected to perform within 1-2 MOA in a vast array of firearms?

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For the most part, across the board I think factory ammo when shot by 100 different shooters is more capable of producing decent groups than 65% of the shooters using it. IMO

It is designed to produce a certain velocity from a certain lenght barrel at a pressure level that "should be safe" in any modern made firearm it could be used in. That in of itself is a big step to take right off the bat.

As a handloader one has the variety of powders from which to taylor their loads from mild to wild. Finding a specific load which hits the node our individual rifle likes is the ultimate goal in most cases.

Having shot plenty of factory ammo over the past 40years as well as my own loads, I can certainly tell you that over the years the factory stuff has at least been pretty fair considering how much they produce in a given lot. Not all of it has been great, but not all has been crap either. In fact in a couple of my firearms, I just gave up trying to beat it and simply purchased what they liked in bulk. Granted these are only two of several, but why argue about it. I have since however found a equivalent load for the one, but nothing even close to the other. I figured that when I can, on just about any given day, shoot a group like this from a 14" barreled Contender chambered in .223 AI, there isn't much need of, or room for improvement.
10 shots, Winchester .223 - 45gr 40rd value pack ammo.

To be honest with this particular ammo, I'm not alone in getting such groups. I don't know what the secrete is with it, as I have tried several different times to replicate the performance using several powders and 45gr bullets. I finally decided that it was a waste of time and picked up a case and have been happy ever since.

For my own purposes I find that quality factory ammo is more than adequate . For the most part I hunt whitetails in the Southeast. Most shots are less than 100 yards. My go-to gun is a Savage in 30-06 with a Leupold 3x9 and I shoot Federal Premium 165 grain Nosler Partition. This gun with this ammo is capable of -1 at 100 yards. I am no longer capable of tight groups nor, for my purposes, do I need them. I can put this same ammo in a Remington 700 (older model) and accuracy is comparable. In a Mossberg (Walmart combo el cheapo) it is not as accurate but I have yet to find a round that shoots accurately in that gun. I have yet to shoot at a standing deer three times.

I have been to the range at Ft Benning and shot with snipers and they all use hand loads. Of course they are shooting at 800+ yards with a $10k setup. Their lives are on the line so they use the best they can get. My pride is on the line so I use what works in my gun. I think that factory ammo is perfectly adequate for the VAST majority of shooting. People needing/wanting extreme accuracy will always be looking to improve so handloading is the way to go.

For a long time I believed that my handloads would only shoot well in my gun. I spent a few months working up a accurate cast load in my 627 using a MBC 158gn SWC and AA#9. I wanted a very accurate load that I could mass produce. I finally found it at 12.5gns. It has remained my go to accurate target load. Not being a "hot" load, I have since tried it in a Taurus 627, Colt Pyton and a Ruger GP and my load bested all factory ammo through those guns as well. It leads me to believe there are powder/case/bullet combos that just work well in a general sense. I think I stumbled onto one and Im sure the factory with their overhead can afford to test until they stumble on one too.

Try rolling a few rounds on a flat surface with a good headlamp and see how many factory rounds have wobbly bullets. A lot of them! The last time I bought .223 factory ammo it cost me darn near forty dollars for a box of fifty rounds. They were beautifully packaged in Styrofoam but almost HALF of them had wobbly bullets. And this from a company we all know well and buy a lot of reloading components from!

For-profit ammo manufacturers just aren't driven to perfection the way reloaders are, in my opinion.

What I am looking for in rifle ammunition is consistency. If I buy 200 bullets with the same batch number, 2 pounds of powder with the same batch number, 200 primers with the same batch number, and use 200 brass cases with the same batch number, and load each cartridge very carefully, weighing each powder charge, then I can be confident that each round will fly to the target consistently for that 200 rounds. If you are buying factory rounds from different batches you can expect different results. I can get MOA groups without using premium bullets.

My experience mirrors 627's. A good load is a good load, and I refuse to believe otherwise. ;-)

For example, in .223 I know 25gr of Varget with a 69gr Nosler HPBT will flat out shoot. If it won't, check your twist rate or tomato stake that barrel. Two barrels on my match rifle, two on my dad's and who knows how many other Highpower shooters have used that combo.

In .38 Special, you're looking at Win 231 and a 158gr lead SWC. Your gun will shoot that acceptably well, no load development really required.

Amazingly, in my .30-30 my goal was merely to duplicate the performance of factory 150gr soft points. That was easy to do (2" or so at 100-yards if memory serves) and saved a lot of time.

As for factory ammo, if Black Hills, Hornady or Federal makes a match version of the caliber you're shooting, I suggest trying a box to establish a baseline accuracy standard for your firearm. At least a few records in Service Rifle competition were established with factory loads.

To echo 627PCFan...

I spent some time trying to find a good factory load for my '06 hunting rifle. I wasn't happy with anything I found. Finally decided to trying loading my own, and eventually found a load that seemed to work fairly well. Groups at 100 yds went from ~5" to ~2.5". So the rifle isn't great, but it has never failed to make a 1 shot kill.

Then I happened across a good deal on a bolt rifle that I picked up for my son to use (he's in the military - unfortunately the timing hasn't worked out for us). Anyway, ran a bunch of left over factory ammo through it hoping to find something that would shoot decent. It wasn't bad, but not great - ~6" at 200yds. This was late fall right before deer opener, and I only had a few rounds of my handloads left after sighting in my hunting rifle, but decided to sacrifice 3 to see how the bolt gun liked them. Put 1 downrange - walked down and marked it. It hit about 7-8" off the point of aim from the factory ammo. Walked back and put 2 more down in quick succession. This is what I found (I've posted this before, so not new to a few here):

Factory ammo can be very accurate.
But the expense of going thru brand after brand, and load after load to find the perfect match for your gun can get quite expensive.
Then, in 5 years, is that load still going to be available ?
or is it still going to be the Exact loading as it was before.
Ammo companies often change componets to cut costs down the line.
Factory Match ammo may not be a Match for your gun.
But for all guns, and the average of All shooters factory ammo is capable of out performing the shooters abilities.
But if you have the patients to work up your loads, and fine tune them to your gun, the accuracy factor jumps tremendously.
It has something related to Pride in what you are doing.