Open carry "victory", $25K payday.

Frank Ettin said:

No one has said that open carry should be illegal. I'm sure you're familiar with the saying, "There's a time and place for everything." One week after a rampage killing at a nearby threater is probably not best time and place to openly carry a gun into another theater.

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But the people who say open carry should be illegal sometimes use the same 'logic' put forth in this thread.

Consideration for others.

The anti gun nitwits are always paranoid so by some of your thinking you should be joining them and never carry.

MEHavey said:

What he did was completely legal...
Totally irrelevant. (And I mean totally.) This was one week after the Batman killings -- one week.

His judgement [carrying openly in a theater] in such circumstance was impaired to the point of terminal irresponsibility.

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So, what is the socially acceptable number of days before completely legal behavior can be performed again?
Is it a week?
A month?
When the anti's say it's been long enough?

Robert said:

How many times do we have to say that no one is saying OC should be illegal before that sinks in? In fact I wish it were so common place that no one batted an eye. But that simply isn't the case.

All we are saying is that sometimes we should use a bit of common sense before doing something, anything. Use good judgement and maybe go concealed the week after a mass murder in a movie theater as you walk out the door to see a movie. But as they say common sense is not so common.


What does that have to do with the price of eggs in China? This actions in question happened in the same city, in the same type of venue a week after a mass murder. Not in your home town. It's like saying I have a red car, Ferraris are red, I have a Ferrari!

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Because people with guns are evil and likely to commit mass murder?

Robert said:

NavyLCDR said:

I've open carried for years and the sheep that have bleated the loudest have been the conceal carry only people who can't resist the opportunity to tell me they carry their guns concealed and so should I.

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What does that have to do with the price of eggs in China? This actions in question happened in the same city, in the same type of venue a week after a mass murder. Not in your home town. It's like saying I have a red car, Ferraris are red, I have a Ferrari!

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If you will notice, Mr. Moderator, my post was in direct response to yours:

Robert said:

I may have been wrong on the same theater but same one or not, statement or not, why would one not exercise even a once of critical thinking and come to the conclusion that walking into a movie theater open carrying might be a bad idea?

The entire city of Aurora, and the US for that matter, is on red alert for people with guns in theaters so why not lay low for a bit? Just unstuck your shirt or wear a light jacket. I carry everywhere I go, in an owb holster with a G22 because that is what i have, and I have yet to have an issue because I wear my shirt untucked.

I get that he did this all the time and I am honestly fine with that but all I am saying is why not use some common sense from time to time and all of this could have been avoided.

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The whole US for that matter was not and is not on red alert for people with guns in theaters. If I open carried in my local theater many times before, without anyone giving a rat's butt about it, why should I change my habit because somebody shot up a theater half way across the US? I also open carry on the grounds of my daughter's schools when I pick her up or drop her off. Always have. Middle School and now High School. So, how long in between school shootings should I not do that anymore?

In today's environment there is no good time to open carry! There will be another shooting next week or the week after! THERE WILL NEVER BE A GOOD TIME TO O.C.! JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE SEE 'S ME CARRY, I SHOULD GIVE UP MY RIGHTS? WHAT HAPPENED TO THE HOME OF BRAVE & LAND OF THE FREE? I guess we O.C. people should just stay inside & not scare the anti-gun crowd! But wait we can't do that eather! Cause if you are sitting in your own home, and you are O.C. they can come to your home for no reason, pull you out at gunpoint & threaten you! Can't happen you say. Then your wrong! No way is there EVER GOING TO BE A GOOD TIME TO O.C.! The anti-gun crowd will ALWAYS GRIPE ABOUT IT! SO WHY GO ALONG WITH A NO WIN SITUATION?

Got it.

So every time there is a crime, we all must cower afterwords until the warranty expires.

Sounds like the terrorists do win.


No thanks. The root of this logic is the base of our purpose.

If guns are only for bad people, this will keep happening.

Until people realize....generational shift, I know.... that good guys carry, too....

We arent going to get there by hiding. A day later, a week later, or a year later.

Maybe this is why I dont wade in here often, sorry for that.

I think we just want to be as free as the anti-gun crowd!

It is a sad state of affairs when people just assume that somebody not doing anything wrong can be "looking for a payday" under the assumption that the police WILL break the law and the police WILL violate your rights and the police WILL unlawfully arrest you.

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Yes it is sad. Very sad. But it's true. And there are some people who pull such stunts. I wonder about those guys in Texas to be honest.

The SAD fact is that we are playing a political game and there are times to make our points and there are times not to. I just think we should pay attention to such things. I am certainly in favor of OC. That doesn't mean I think it's always a good idea to do it. Would you walk around the UC Santa Barbera campus right now carrying openly, unholstered and saying crazy things about how it's your right to have sex? All that would be perfectly legal in many places. No the situation wasn't that extreme but this illustrates that there is a line that shouldn't be crossed if we want to win this political battle.

Man OC's in a theatre. No one is harmed. That's a win! We just need to compile more statistics. Eventually, it might prove that whenever there are lots of people OCing, homicidal nutjobs wait for the next showing.

Cee Zee said:

Would you walk around the UC Santa Barbera campus right now carrying openly, unholstered and saying crazy things about how it's your right to have sex?

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Wait...let me get this straight...that is a behavior that you think would be normal and acceptable two weeks ago? Or, after "enough time" has passed from the shooting, will again be acceptable?

And why, when we are talking about open carry, of a handgun in a holster...are you asking about "unholstered"?

And why are you talking about "saying crazy things"?

Cee Zee said:

The SAD fact is that we are playing a political game and there are times to make our points and there are times not to.

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Mr. Mapes wasn't making a point. He was doing what he normally does in his normal everyday life.

krupparms said:

I think we just want to be as free as the anti-gun crowd!

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And that is exactly why the anti-gun crowd is the vocal minority that the politicians listen too. We, as the pro-gun side, are too wrapped up in political correctness and "consideration" for others that most of the pro-gun side won't stand up and be heard the way the anti-gun crowd does, regardless of the circumstances (or lack of circumstances). Does the anti-gun crowd give one bit consideration to political correctness? They will jump on a mass shooting within minutes of it happening and start screaming their anti-gun agenda and in response we encourage people to hide their guns so as not to disturb them and be considerate of them.

The key to open carry is the safe transport of the firearm. A holstered handgun is a safe handgun. Walking around with it in hand indicates danger is present. Pointing it at others without lawful justification is a crime.

Rights are not supposed to be predicated upon the feelings of those around us. Unfortunately, that is in the process of changing. We are now playing a political game based upon the smoke and mirrors of the MSM and government. Twice as unfortunate is the average American's propensity to fall for it.

Frank Ettin said:

But that also doesn't mean that Mr. Mapes exercised the best judgment by openly carrying a gun at that theater at that time. Sometimes out of respect for our fellow humans it can be better choice to do something we don't have to do, or to forbear from doing something we otherwise could do.

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I agree with this. How could I not? In addition to being respectful of others, always a good trait, he could have saved himself a lot of time, money and effort.

That said I’m not sure it matters. He decided to not be considerate of others feelings and engaged in legal, non-harmful behavior. At that point the rest of society just has to get over it.

We should not tolerate hysterical behavior from the masses and we for darn sure shouldn’t allow it from our authority figures. At best the police should have informed the theatre he wasn’t doing anything wrong. At worst the police should have informed the theatre they had the right to ask him to leave.

At that point the rest of society just has to get over it.
We should not tolerate hysterical behavior from the masses....

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Oh boy... :banghead:

I sorry, but that’s what it was – hysterical behavior. Without having personally been there to witness the event I think we can safely conclude that he wasn’t threatening anyone. He was just trying to watch a movie while also being an inconsiderate jerk. So what? There are a lot of inconsiderate jerks around. Sometimes the cost of that is being asked to leave.

There are people who object to nearly everything. Some would like you to be harassed and arrested. These people should be educated if possible and ignored if not. Their objection to certain behaviors is irrelevant. We can understand where it comes from without condoning it in any way.

I'm the hysterical Sheeple...
...and I vote.

Never forget that simple fact.
Lose the Sheeple, lose the right.

Isn't giving up the same as losing?

MEHavey said:

I'm the hysterical Sheeple...

...and I vote.



Never forget that simple fact.

Lose the Sheeple, lose the right.

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Exactly

Like it or not we must play the political game lest we loose completely. Right or wrong doesn't really matter when one I'll conceived stunt convinces a few thousand voters that an activity needs to be stamped out.

Notice I said activity and not RIGHT. Today the constitutions grip on actual policy is tenuous at best. We are getting damn close to the point where if a movement is popular enough it will happen constitution be damned and we'd better damn well be aware of this.

People that pull stunts like this are either oblivious or crying out for attention. Neither of which further our cause. If you OC then please THINK about and ponder where it may land you/us before you do it. Don't just do it because you can like a hardhead and expect the rest of humanity to accommodate you graciously at ALL times.

As mentioned above there's a time and a place and sometimes when it's not the right time and place it's pretty damn obvious and doesn't take a political strategist to figure out

Notice I said activity and not RIGHT. Today the constitutions grip on actual policy is tenuous at best. We are getting damn close to the point where if a movement is popular enough it will happen constitution be damned and we'd better damn well be aware of this.

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We're getting to the point now.

Either we double down and demand our right and risk losing it, or we play the political game and risk losing it.

I think at this point we're going to lose the short term political game. Heller opened the door to restrictions by effectively removing "shall not be infringed". I hesitate to put a year on it, but this mental health method of gun control appears to be very reasonable to many non-anti-gun-rights voters. The problem is that it's such a squishy standard that it is very easy to make it nearly impossible for a reasonable, sane law abiding person to purchase a gun. Even worse, it is very easy to make it extremely expensive for the same person.

Additionally, the demonization of gun owners continues nearly unopposed, which will result in the loss of the right in the long term. Sure, we have our little websites and advocacy programs, but we don't have cable TV, nightly news, and hundreds of movies, plays and so on. Most importantly, we do not have the schools. These messages are very effective in the long term because emotional development is so critical from ages 4-7. My manager's children had nightmares about global warming causing all the animals to die off! They are guaranteed climate change votes in 2020. Schools are doing the same thing with guns.

Why do we have to cater to the anti-gun group or lose? Why can't we stand together as the majority, stand up loud and proud, insist that our voice be heard, and vote? That is exactly what the anti-gun groups do to win and have most of the pro-gun community afraid of them.

The difference is...we are the majority and they are the minority. The only difference is that they don't give a rat's butt about being politically correct or considerate.