continued Training after CCW

Google handgun schools or shooting schools in your location. Also, look at schedules for some of the traveling instructors that may be in your area.

Force on force (FoF) is considered something to engage in after the basic proficiency is established. Sounds like you're looking to get the basics down cold, which is a good thing. NRA classes aren't going to give you much more than you're already got, it sounds like. They are very much geared toward safety and extremely basic instruction. This is the perfect niche for them, as they are often the portal by which new shooters are introduced to handguns.

But you are on the right track. Even after spending several years active duty, carrying a handgun for work for a few years after that and having a CCW for more than a decade, I still take classes once in a while. Shooting is NOT like riding a bike. It is a perishable skill and needs maintenance.

use this and find a Personal Protection outside the home class in your area.
http://www.nrainstructors.org/searchcourse.aspx

I am interested in a class for the next level too. We hosted a group of friends and neighbors here in my farm shop for our cc class. None of us had any formal pistol training. We undoubtedly looked like a bunch of Barney Fifes. Everyone handled their weapon safely, but we were all pretty ragged in the drawing the weapon exercises.
Our instructor has agreed to come back next winter for a more advanced class.

Practicing without proper training often helps establish bad habits instead of good ones. I am obviously a proponent of training - it's kinda in the job description here .

I agree you should not push yourself too far too fast and get too far ahead of your established skillset too fast. Safety is the most important thing IMHO for you to 'groove' first. Good safety habits come from exercising constant conscious awareness of safety rules when you have a firearm at hand or in hand. It is necessary to "live in the moment" whenever a firearm, ESPECIALLY a loaded firearm, is present. It is that momentary loss of awareness, that split second lack of conscious control of our actions, that often leads to accidents. Muzzle awareness and trigger finger discipline are critical and cannot be overemphasized IMHO.

Safety is first and foremost in training. Any instructor worth his or her pay and your time will toss a student off their firing line if that student is not safe in their handling of a firearm.

What drawstroke are you practicing? Take a look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OZfgutNufU for a discussion on grip and drawstroke that will probably be worth your while. Though videos can be helpful, there is IMHO no substitute for observation and correction by a capable instructor, as early along in your learning curve as you can manage it.

There's a fine line between confidence and caution/concern that comes into play for all of us when it comes to decisions like this one. If we do not challenge ourselves, and push the limits of our comfort zones, we will limit our advancement. We have to exceed the limits of our full confidence in our skillsets in order to learn new skills and advance to new levels. That's necessary, and I don't want anyone to misinterpret what I said earlier.

Where we must be fully confident IMHO is in our safety habits, and in our ability to fundamentally run whatever gun we wish to train with adequately at a basic level (load, unload and reload safely, clear malfunctions safely, hit targets reasonably well with reasonable speed from the holster or a given ready position, holster or sling safely, draw or unsling safely, etc).

No one wants to be in a class full of people who are fundamentally unsafe, and no instructor worth having will tolerate unsafe behavior with a firearm on their firing line. No one wants to be on the line with someone whose gun won't run because of constant hardware problems, ammo problems or basic skill problems. That slows down the progress of the whole class, distracts the instructor and doesn't do that particular student any good either. And no one likes being the class 'goat' for whatever reason either.

I should have mentioned this in my first post, but I forgot to do it - give http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=396584 a look, and see if the material there helps - especially the "Getting Started" part.

And take a look at http://louisawerbuckinterviewwithamadman.blogspot.com/. This is an old interview with my favorite trainer (in case there's any question as to my objectivity), but Louis' philosophy hasn't changed a lot since then. His POI has, but his teaching philosophy is pretty much the same. This might help you with your confidence some, despite the fact that a certain number of people in the community say that Louis scares them.

Here's a tiny sample:


I asked him what the toughest thing was about teaching people to shoot.

“For beginners, probably realizing it’s easier than they think it is. They tend to overthink the problem. For experienced people, trying to correct ingrained habits they’ve had for years. That’s much harder.”

Q: A lot of guys can teach the mechanics of shooting, which is fairly simple, don’t you think?

A: It is extremely simple. It’s sights, trigger, follow-through. That’s all it is, that’s all it ever has been. Once the firing grip, the stance, the shooting platform and that type of thing are worked out. The actual operation of sending a projectile downrange on a steady target is sights, trigger, follow-through. Most people try to shoot too accurately and overthink the problem. They try for 103 percent and wind up with 40 percent. My draw to the game is the psychology of it, the whys and wherefores. It always has been.

And if you liked that, see http://www.louisawerbuckgunningthroughgunsite.blogspot.com/ for more.

BTW, Louis hangs his hat on the web at http://yfainc.com/.

Hope this helps...

make a skills list

Nice to see that someone relatively new is determined to learn and train with a professional.

Jutinlee, you could solve the problem by drawing up a list of the skills that you want to perfect or acquire. Bring up this list when making arrangements for 1-on-1 instruction, so your instructor knows what your real needs are.

A list might include some of the following:

- acquiring grip (incl. strong and weak hand only, hand transfers, table start).
- stance (incl. Isosceles, Turret, kneeling, seated, prone)
- draw (incl. from standing, seated, while moving forward or backing up) and re-holstering, with and without your cover garment.
- trigger work: breaking the shot and trigger re-set.
- recoil: understanding it and working with it instead of fighting it.
- Sight picture (how much is enough at given distances or circumstances), including point shooting.
- running the gun: clearing malfunctions, incl. misfeed, double-feed, stovepipe, failure to go into battery.
- Reloads: from retention, tactical, on the move, from behind cover.
- Movement: to cover, shooting from cover/barricade, shooting on the move.
- Turns: turning/pivoting then shooting.


Coincidentally, all or most of the above skills are useful in the action shooting games of IDPA and USPSA - IPSC.

Courses or one-on-one?

If you pursue a series of courses, you may encounter overlap, or repetition from the each previous course. Or you may encounter deviation from the curriculum in order to to bring someone up to speed that should have been in a more basic class. Either way you end up paying for content that you've been exposed to before and does not advance you. This is known as non-value add content. Some courses are excellent and have high value-add content, but I tend to avoid courses/classes.

Good basic instruction is available from numerous sources for free:
-- chat up folks at the LGS
-- some of the better shooters at competitive events are very generous with their knowledge
-- youtube, google (search "how to grip/shoot a pistol") the gurus are well represented, and just ignore the others

IMO, for shooting sports, like for other sports, serious participants get coached. I've had a few one-on-one sessions and each time found that the personal attention made it very worthwhile.

Competitive action shooting will also move you along better than plinking or target practice.

Have fun and stay safe!

Forget the "experts only" hype. As Clint Smith has famously said, "There are no advanced techniques. There are only fundamentals, applied faster and farther away."

Unless you sign on to classes teaching specific tactics, you'll find people of all skill levels in any class you attend. Many schools have prerequisites to attending "advanced" level classes, which include documentation of prior military experience or training from another school. Find a school with decent reviews and sign up for their level 1 handgun. You'll find out quickly that a school that specializes in teaching shooting is a "whole nuther animal" than a NRA basic safety class. Don't take that as a knock on the NRA classes, see my comments in post #2. They serve their niche well.

Just for example, I gave my Dad a three day class for his birthday several years ago. Upon return home, his first words to me the following day were: "I didn't know you could even DO that with a handgun!"

Find a reputable, even if not nationally known, school. Sign up and enjoy.

Any instructor's "Level 1" type 2-3 day course. Whatever is a step above handgun or firearm safety.

This link is for a class I convinced my wife to attend this fall, I'll be at a close quarters rifle course the same weekend.

http://firearmsacademy.com/handgun/8-defensive-handgun

I know it isn't in your area, but read the course outline and equipment list. The course you want will be similar to this.

Ran across this, and it seemed a good fit here...

http://eiaft.blogspot.com/2014/05/just-basics-preparing-your-defense.html

Monday, May 19, 2014

Just the Basics - Preparing Your Defense

Feel free to give me a call! I will be scheduling some "semi" advanced defensive pistol classes at the World Shooting Complex in Sparta, IL...not that far from STL!!

(618) 218-0065 before 2pm Mon-Fri! www.3rdmonkeytactical.com

jutinlee said:

I appreciate all of the comments.
The desire to have the ingrained Proper fundamentals is why I want to get to a course before doing the advanced classes.
I just wasn't sure how to find that level of training. It seems everything you find is either for the true beginner and advanced "expert" type courses.
I want an intermediate level.
I may have to do a 1 on 1 class to get the level of training I need.
I know (and practice) safety first, always. I don't want to jump straight into classes which use holster draws without having ensured I have a proper, safe, draw. As mentioned, I don't want to be the class goat.

Click to expand...

Although I have never done it, and if you are willing to travel approximately 100 miles, I would be willing to schedule a one-on-one training session at my home range! I am not interested in making money, I am more concerned with making my students competent defensive shooters!
I am not a competitive shooter, I am a law enforcement firearms and self defense instructor who has attended most of the top training schools in the U.S. and abroad!
I am not an "expert", I have a lot of experience training civilians, as well as professionals!

training near St Louis?

Check out:

THE MIDWEST TRAINING GROUP

SPARTAN TACTICAL TRAINING GROUP

Just got back from ECQC with Southnarc. That is an eye opener.

That is an eye opener.

It certainly is... in a good way, though.

In a very good transformational way. Great course.