Don Gwinn
Moderator Emeritus
Is that it?
Really?
Really?
How Deep Does it Have to Get?
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JohnBT
Member
That's right, if it's in the book it must be true...same song, second verse, could get better, but it just gets worse.
JT
JT
ojibweindian
Member
Snore.
griz
Member
I'm not as big a fan of administration as many here, but this doesn't strike me as real evidence. It is subject to interpetation from writers that have an agenda, were interviewing people who may not of been forthcoming, and most of all, is trumpeted by CBS, who is selling the book!
7.62FullMetalJacket
Member
Let us compare the Clarke/Woodward publisher which is owned by Viacom, which also owns CBS. Is this a conflict of interest? Only if you are not a leftist. BTW, CBS is anti-bush, just listen to Dan Blather. DOes the media have an ethical obligation here?
However, we hear ad nauseam about the Cheney/Halliburton axis. Yet Cheney resined from the board, divested his stock, and has no direct dealing with Halliburton. But that is a conspiracy.
However, we hear ad nauseam about the Cheney/Halliburton axis. Yet Cheney resined from the board, divested his stock, and has no direct dealing with Halliburton. But that is a conspiracy.
Baba Louie
Member
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2002
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- 3,831
So I guess Powell is going around today lying his 4 starred Sec'y of State booty off disputing Woodwards allegations, eh? Sneaky-lying-no-good-for-nuthin-don't-know-what-honor is ex Joint Chief of Staff Chairman Cabinet member types. Sheesh, Has the man no sense of DUTY or HONOR or COUNTRY?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,117609,00.html
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/20/woodward.book/index.html
But, if it sells just one book...
Always interesting how different people recall the same thing in different ways and "speak the truth" about the matter. Almost like "Truth is a Perception" or sumpin.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,117609,00.html
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/20/woodward.book/index.html
But, if it sells just one book...
Always interesting how different people recall the same thing in different ways and "speak the truth" about the matter. Almost like "Truth is a Perception" or sumpin.
Sergeant Bob
Member
I was just listening to the Glenn Beck show and he had tape from the Larry (cough) King Show. He was talking with Bob Woodward and Prince Bandar
Larry said something about Woodwards book stating that the Saudi's agreed to try to keep prices low until the election.
Woodward and Prince Bandar both disputed this claim.
Both said the Saudi's agreed to try to keep prices low to help the economy, as has been done with several previous Presidents.
Prince Bandar said it was in thier best interest not to damage the US economy. (this is all paraphrased from memory).
Of course the conspiracy theorists will spin this into some sort of plot, even though Clinton did the same in 2000, and Carter did it in 1979, and John Effin Kerry has been has been beating up on Bush for not doing it.
Larry said something about Woodwards book stating that the Saudi's agreed to try to keep prices low until the election.
Woodward and Prince Bandar both disputed this claim.
Both said the Saudi's agreed to try to keep prices low to help the economy, as has been done with several previous Presidents.
Prince Bandar said it was in thier best interest not to damage the US economy. (this is all paraphrased from memory).
Of course the conspiracy theorists will spin this into some sort of plot, even though Clinton did the same in 2000, and Carter did it in 1979, and John Effin Kerry has been has been beating up on Bush for not doing it.
What disgusts me most here is all the people who blindly support Bush under the guise of "It would be worse under Kerry or Gore, or Dumbo the ????ing elephant".
The point is, we shouldn't put up with any of this ???? from any of our leaders.
Dumb people who continue blind support of the Republicrats or Demrepubs is why we'll be trapped in the two party system for the forseeable future and will never see a third (Or fourth or fifth, etc) party, be it libertarian, green or anything in between with any sort of chance.
The point is, we shouldn't put up with any of this ???? from any of our leaders.
Dumb people who continue blind support of the Republicrats or Demrepubs is why we'll be trapped in the two party system for the forseeable future and will never see a third (Or fourth or fifth, etc) party, be it libertarian, green or anything in between with any sort of chance.
longeyes
member
The media want Bush out. They see him as the ultimate party-pooper.
As for Woodward he should have been called on his approach to "journalism" a long time ago. He gets away with it because a) a lot of his colleagues in the culture like his slant and b) the public likes sensationalism, baseless or not.
As for Woodward he should have been called on his approach to "journalism" a long time ago. He gets away with it because a) a lot of his colleagues in the culture like his slant and b) the public likes sensationalism, baseless or not.
fix
Member
Another Mobyism.
DTLoken,
I don't see the people as the problem, I see the Libertarian party as the problem.
If they weren't SO extreme, they would get more support. But they are. Also, they seem to think that they can start at the top... they run for president instead of for the local government first.
That is the problem... not the "two party" voting system.
I don't see the people as the problem, I see the Libertarian party as the problem.
If they weren't SO extreme, they would get more support. But they are. Also, they seem to think that they can start at the top... they run for president instead of for the local government first.
That is the problem... not the "two party" voting system.
Sergeant Bob
Member
This is just a small part of the article, but contains the pertinent info.
-------------------------------------------------
No Saudi Oil 'Deal,' Woodward Says
By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Tuesday, April 20, 2004; 10:38 AM
<edit>
But on CNN's "Larry King Live" last night, Woodward explained that he never suggested that there was any covert deal.
As CNN reports: "The charge that Saudi Arabia made a secret pact with President Bush to lower gasoline prices in time to help him in the November presidential election was denied Monday by the White House, the Saudi ambassador to the United States -- and even by journalist Bob Woodward, who raised the specter of such a quid pro quo in a book released Monday.
"'I don't say there's a secret deal or any collaboration on this,' Woodward told CNN's 'Larry King Live' Monday. 'What I say in the book is that the Saudis . . . hoped to keep oil prices low during the period before the election, because of its impact on the economy. That's what I say.'
"The Saudi ambassador to the United States, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, who appeared on the program with Woodward, said his characterization of Saudi policy was 'accurate.'"
Here's the transcript of the show.
Woodward's book describes Bandar as hoping "to fine-tune oil prices over 10 months to prime the [U.S.] economy for 2004."
Verbatim
There were some fascinating three-way exchanges on that Larry King show last night. First, about Woodward's assertion that Bandar was told that Bush had decided to go to war before even Secretary of State Colin L. Powell knew.
"KING: We have made the connection. With us on the phone is Prince Bandar of Saudi Arabia. Who wants to go first? Do you hear Bob OK, Prince?
"WOODWARD: Have you read the book, ambassador?
"BANDAR BIN SULTAN, SAUDI AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: No, but I read snippets of it.
"WOODWARD: The parts pertaining to you, and there seems to be some contention about this meeting January 11 in the White House. You know, Don Rumsfeld is on record saying he looked you in the eye and said, 'you can take this to the bank, Ambassador, this is going to happen,' and the 'this' is the war plan. And. . . .
"KING: I'll let him respond to that part. Prince, is that true?
"BIN SULTAN: Larry, number one, Bob Woodward is a first class journalist and reporter. And. . . .
"KING: OK, and number two?
"BIN SULTAN: And number two, I will never contradict Bob Woodward.
"WOODWARD: OK.
"KING: So what's number three?
"BIN SULTAN: And number three is, what he said is accurate. However, there was one sentence that was left out.
"KING: And that is?
"BIN SULTAN: Both Vice President Cheney and Secretary Rumsfeld told me before the briefing that the president has not made a decision yet, but here is the plan, and then the rest is accurate."
And on the oil price issue:
"KING: Let me get in one more thing, Prince Bandar.
"BIN SULTAN: Yes, sir.
"KING: The story that Mr. Woodward has about the promise to lower the oil prices by the election. Your government has denied has.
"WOODWARD: That's not my story. What I say in the book is that the Saudis, and maybe you looked at this section of the book, Ambassador, that the Saudis hoped to keep oil prices low during the period for -- before the election, because of its impact on the economy. That's what I say.
"BIN SULTAN: I think the way that Bob said it now is accurate. We hoped that the oil prices will stay low, because that's good for America's economy, but more important, it's good for our economy and the international economy, and this is not -- nothing unusual. President Clinton asked us to keep the prices down in the year 2000. In fact, I can go back to 1979, President Carter asked us to keep the prices down to avoid the malaise. So yes, it's in our interests and in America's interests to keep the prices down.
"KING: Do you want President Bush. . . .
"BIN SULTAN: But that was not a deal.
"KING: Do you want President Bush to be reelected?
"BIN SULTAN: We always want any president who is in office to be reelected, Larry, but that is the American choice. This is not our call. This is the American people's call."
<edit>
-------------------------------------------------
No Saudi Oil 'Deal,' Woodward Says
By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Tuesday, April 20, 2004; 10:38 AM
<edit>
But on CNN's "Larry King Live" last night, Woodward explained that he never suggested that there was any covert deal.
As CNN reports: "The charge that Saudi Arabia made a secret pact with President Bush to lower gasoline prices in time to help him in the November presidential election was denied Monday by the White House, the Saudi ambassador to the United States -- and even by journalist Bob Woodward, who raised the specter of such a quid pro quo in a book released Monday.
"'I don't say there's a secret deal or any collaboration on this,' Woodward told CNN's 'Larry King Live' Monday. 'What I say in the book is that the Saudis . . . hoped to keep oil prices low during the period before the election, because of its impact on the economy. That's what I say.'
"The Saudi ambassador to the United States, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, who appeared on the program with Woodward, said his characterization of Saudi policy was 'accurate.'"
Here's the transcript of the show.
Woodward's book describes Bandar as hoping "to fine-tune oil prices over 10 months to prime the [U.S.] economy for 2004."
Verbatim
There were some fascinating three-way exchanges on that Larry King show last night. First, about Woodward's assertion that Bandar was told that Bush had decided to go to war before even Secretary of State Colin L. Powell knew.
"KING: We have made the connection. With us on the phone is Prince Bandar of Saudi Arabia. Who wants to go first? Do you hear Bob OK, Prince?
"WOODWARD: Have you read the book, ambassador?
"BANDAR BIN SULTAN, SAUDI AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: No, but I read snippets of it.
"WOODWARD: The parts pertaining to you, and there seems to be some contention about this meeting January 11 in the White House. You know, Don Rumsfeld is on record saying he looked you in the eye and said, 'you can take this to the bank, Ambassador, this is going to happen,' and the 'this' is the war plan. And. . . .
"KING: I'll let him respond to that part. Prince, is that true?
"BIN SULTAN: Larry, number one, Bob Woodward is a first class journalist and reporter. And. . . .
"KING: OK, and number two?
"BIN SULTAN: And number two, I will never contradict Bob Woodward.
"WOODWARD: OK.
"KING: So what's number three?
"BIN SULTAN: And number three is, what he said is accurate. However, there was one sentence that was left out.
"KING: And that is?
"BIN SULTAN: Both Vice President Cheney and Secretary Rumsfeld told me before the briefing that the president has not made a decision yet, but here is the plan, and then the rest is accurate."
And on the oil price issue:
"KING: Let me get in one more thing, Prince Bandar.
"BIN SULTAN: Yes, sir.
"KING: The story that Mr. Woodward has about the promise to lower the oil prices by the election. Your government has denied has.
"WOODWARD: That's not my story. What I say in the book is that the Saudis, and maybe you looked at this section of the book, Ambassador, that the Saudis hoped to keep oil prices low during the period for -- before the election, because of its impact on the economy. That's what I say.
"BIN SULTAN: I think the way that Bob said it now is accurate. We hoped that the oil prices will stay low, because that's good for America's economy, but more important, it's good for our economy and the international economy, and this is not -- nothing unusual. President Clinton asked us to keep the prices down in the year 2000. In fact, I can go back to 1979, President Carter asked us to keep the prices down to avoid the malaise. So yes, it's in our interests and in America's interests to keep the prices down.
"KING: Do you want President Bush. . . .
"BIN SULTAN: But that was not a deal.
"KING: Do you want President Bush to be reelected?
"BIN SULTAN: We always want any president who is in office to be reelected, Larry, but that is the American choice. This is not our call. This is the American people's call."
<edit>
The problem is that the general public is ignorant. They get their info from sound bytes on the 5,6,7,10,11...o'clock "news" and take it as the truth. The attention spans are short and the motivation to verify any of the spoon fed info is even shorter.
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