problem with Lee load data

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deadeye dick

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Just got some.357 mag brass and am going to load some 158 LSWC's
Looking in the Lee second addition (pg.557) for W231 data it states a start load of 6.2 as a start load, where down the column HP38 is 3.4. What gives? Max load is 6.7, with 42500 as a CUP.
In my One Book One Caliber book it states a more sensible load of 3.4 to 5.0 for both w231 and HP38 with a CUP of12,600 under the 158 GR. cast LSWC. Is it a misprint or am I reading it wrong?:confused:

HAPPY FATHERS DAY TO ALLl
 
I run across that too, in other manuals beside Lee. Maybe the data was made when the two powders were different is all i can figure..?

-Or-

Since every lot is different, maybe the testers never get the same data twice...?Just thinking out loud here.
 
Lee just reprints powder manufacturers data, they do mot test any of their own. Several years ago these two powders were made by different companies. If you are using current production powder use current data from the powder manufacturer. Hodgdon sells both of these powders now, use their data. It is available online.
 
Hodgdon was licensed by Winchester to sell their powders starting 2006 and 2005 and prior load data for W231 and HP-38 were different - http://www.hodgdon.com/history.html

After 2006, load data for W231 changed to show the same start/max charges as HP-38.

If you look at published load data (like from Lee and Lyman #49 etc.) and W231 load data is different from HP-38, likely they maybe using older than 2005 test data and not recently tested load data.

If you have some older W231 powder and want to be sure, you can contact Hodgdon customer service and have them verify the lot #/manufacture date and which load data you should use.

BTW, here's the pdf of 1999 Winchester load data that remained same for most W231 pistol loads through 2005 - http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=159609&stc=1&d=1329800605
 
My question is the two completely different load data's, 6.2n the Lee and 3.4 I the One Caliber . That's almost double the measure. Which one is correct?
 
I don't have either book so I can't comment on them but what are the velocities and pressures listed?

Are there difference in OAL?
 
Look at Hodgdon's site. Heavier load is for jacketed. The lighter load is for lead.
 
What azjohn said. 3.4 gr comes from the 158 gr *lead* bullet table and shows 800 fps. It's a light target load that probably runs in the normal .38 Special (not +P) pressure range. The corresponding lead bullet starting load with similar velocity for .38 Sp is 3.1 grains, 10 % less.

The 6.2 gr load comes from the 158 gr XTP table and shows 1100 fps. Not the same performance envelope! Not surprising that the charge is very different.

If you wanted a light load for XTPs, I'd look at the .38 Sp XTP table, which gives 3.8 gr @ 660 fps starting and goes up to 4.3 gr @ 779 fps. If you took the middle of that range, 4.0 or 4.1 gr, and added 5 to 10 % to compensate for the larger .357 case, you'd get 4.2 to 4.6 grains, which I'd bet would give something like 700 to 750 fps. I would load 4.4 grains. I'd probably even shoot it in my 24" barrel .357 rifle, 'though I might chrono the first couple of rounds just to be paranoid. If their velocity was less than from a 6" revolver, that would worry me!

How does 4.4 grains for the XTP sound compared to 3.4 grains for lead? Still a big difference, but not radically so.
 
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You're Lee data is for jacketed bullets. 6.9 is the max load for a 158 grain jacketed bullet. 3.4 to 5.0 of either powder is the cast load data.
As mentioned, Lee doesn't test anything. If there are no other loads in their book, they've merely published jacketed data only.
 
My question is the two completely different load data's, 6.2n the Lee and 3.4 I the One Caliber . That's almost double the measure. Which one is correct?
They are most likely both correct, or safe.

231 and HP38 were and still are the same powder, from different lots.

As mentionned LEE copied data from Winchester and Hodgdon, who worked and printed as they wished.

I think Winchester stuck to the old way: max. loads and pressures to show the customer their powders can do it. Hodgdon had more sense in showing more practical applications (fast powders for reduced loads).

I have a free Winchester manual from about '99 which gives 6.7 of 231 as max for a 158 Lead, 42500 cup.
A '95 free Hodgdon manual gives 3.9 grs "max" of HP38 for 946fps and 15700cup.
This matches LEE's data.

http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Freebies/default.html

See Hodgdon's Data Center or an other loading manual for a more complete coverage. Let me know if you don't find.
 
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I guess my Lee's "Modern Reloading: Second Edition" is a bit changed from the OP. This reprint is from 2012. 357 mag. with 158 gr. lead bullet list both W231 & HP38, in that order with 3.4-5.0 gr. @ 1.610" Coal. And is on page 528.

Dick, what year is your edition reprinted? I'm curious, they must of found some mistakes, and/or added/subtracted other calibers from your print to mine.
 
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