Annealing brass

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BGD

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I have read some threads where annealing the case neck is recommended on rifle brass. In my research I have seen where they are using a socket and a drill with a propane torch. Is there a better way to do this? any recommendations before I try this? I figure I will find a 650 deg crayon for this purpose.
 
Barring the Giraud annealer above (drool :eek: ) there is no better/more convenient fool-proof/repeatable way than the socket drill-spin method using Tempilaq to control the process.

See HERE.

I strongly recommend you not use a crayon. It is a PITA to work with/get to stick on cases. Bite the bullet and get some 475° Tempilaq and use it as shown in the link above.

NOTE: Annealing doesn't really get a grip until 750° for several seconds. The 475° patch put a ¼" below the shoulder while the flame is primarily directed on the neck/shoulder takes heat-creep into account to get consistant results. I do use 750° green inside the neck of big straightwall cases like 38-55 and 45-70/90, but there I can use a different spinning technique (inside the case) so I can see when that (dark green) Tempilaq melts.

.
 
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Decades ago I loaded and shot a BLR in .358W a lot. To neck anneal the brass I would stand them in a pan of water up to about half of the case, heat the mouths until they were cherry and tip the case over into the water.
Don't remember where I learned this but I subscribed to Hand Loader for twenty years so it may have been there.
 
Ordinary pre-marking sticks are like crayons.

Get a crayon and try putting a nice wide mark onto the side of
the slick/polished/highly-radius'd surface of a rifle case. :banghead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIMqVIM39I0
(See video starting at 1 minute mark)
In this case the Tempilstik won't 'stick until temperature is
actually reached. Since you can't heat the stick in the flame while at the
same time heating the brass, that would make this impractical for neck
temp reading; OR you'd have to hold it against the spinning case below the
shoulder at the lower 475 temp -- also impractical.
 
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I can't find the 475 deg tempilaq. Brownells has 450 and 650. Would one of those work? Would be great to have one of those machines, but I want to stay married:)
 
Would be great to have one of those machines, but I want to stay married

Maybe you should rethink that? My gal bought it for me!

I am just kidding and understand. This is a business investment not a new toy for me! LOL Although all of my recent reloads magically seem to be annealed?:evil:
 
Get a crayon and try putting a nice wide mark onto the side of
the slick/polished/highly-radius'd surface of a rifle case

I had never used them and that would be a tough trick to pull off for sure.

Thanks for the info!
 
...can't find 475....
Go ahead and use 450°. But instead of painting it 1/4" below the shoulder, put the stripe fully 5/16ths under the shoulder. ;)

(Naaaaaw... go for it.) :D

~~~~~ BREAK BREAK ~~~~~~

I just tried using my laser/IR sensor on the neck as I spun a scrap 30-06 case in the propane flame. When the 475° Tempilaq melted on the case 1/4" below the shoulder, the probe on neck was lagging to the point of only reading 208°F.

Interesting idea though.....
k128880.jpg
 
IR will not work well in this application as the case is inside a flame.

You also don't need templaq if you have an automated machine, just adjust it so it is running with a dwell time that, if you slow it any further, the flame will change from blue to orange (if you are using propane).

Here is a thread with photos.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=545128&highlight=annealing&page=3

I built my own machine and have sold "blades" to a few hundred others that have built their own.

This is the thread on that one.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=434828&highlight=finished+the+auto+annealer

I am also in the final stages of putting a base machine into production. It will cost less than any other automated machine and need no conversions for any case up to 50 BMG and has a cycle time twice as fast as the Giraud.
 
jmorris, that is one fine machine you made there! One thing I do not like about the Giraud unit is how long it takes me to load it with brass. A case feed would be fantastic!
 
Decades ago I loaded and shot a BLR in .358W a lot. To neck anneal the brass I would stand them in a pan of water up to about half of the case, heat the mouths until they were cherry and tip the case over into the water.
Don't remember where I learned this but I subscribed to Hand Loader for twenty years so it may have been there.
That is what I used to do with my .222 Mag cases. The neck/shoulder would go from work hardened to dead soft. Almost to soft.

The new annealing machines are very cool, but pricey as well.
 
I have read some threads where annealing the case neck is recommended on rifle brass. In my research I have seen where they are using a socket and a drill with a propane torch. Is there a better way to do this? any recommendations before I try this? I figure I will find a 650 deg crayon for this purpose.
That was my post. My intent was to help keep new reloaders from ruining their brass by overheating.

The only portion of the case that needs to be annealed is the neck, and that's why I immediately cool it in water after heating.

So the question becomes: how long to heat it? And trial and error has convinced me that heating a .223 neck any longer than 6 or 7 seconds is overdoing it.

Complicating this subject is the misleading anomaly that simply twirling in a flame 'til the neck and shoulder turns blue and dropping it in water works very well - but only the first time. Nobody has been able to convincingly explain to me why this only works once, but I suspect that it may have to do with grain structure.

At any rate, I wish you luck and I would urge erring on the side of caution when you heat your brass. One thing everybody seems to agree on is that heat should be limited to the neck as much as possible.
 
Necks only? I have no problem with annealing below the shoulder, the shoulder needs to be annealed,

many years ago I determined annealing was not complicated so I decided on some simple rules, I made a few tools that were governed by the rules. Then I started reading about annealing, tools and expense, my simple tools do not cost enough to work, then there is the agenda. I do not have one.

F. Guffey
 
I use a quick and simple method to anneal my rifle brass. A couple of deep impact sockets that fit the .223 and .308 brass on an adapter for my cordless drill to spin them in an inexpensive Bernz torch flame.

For Temperature control I have a 750 degree heat crayon which is NOT for pre-marking the cases but merely to check the heat achieved by a given amount of "Flame Time". Place the spinning case neck in the flame (include the shoulder area too) and start counting "one, one thousand, two, one thousand, etc. As the case neck starts to heat, check the body to shoulder junction for heat by removing from the flame and IMMEDIATELY touching the shoulder with the crayon while it's still spinning. If the crayon just starts to melt and smear the case it's just right. Use that amount of time for subsequent cases and if you have a poor sense of rhythm just download a "Metronome App" for your cell phone.

Make sure you place the case in the same part of the flame each time. The only thing the Giraud automatic case annealer does differently is that it's automatic (and about $500 too).

With my .223 cases it takes about 4 seconds of flame time and the .308's 5-6 seconds. I have a self lighting torch with a "wrap-around" flame type and I run it wide open so flame setting is uniform from session to session.

When your case has reached the right temp just dump it in a metal bowl or cardboard box lined with aluminum foil. They'll be hot enough to burn anything cloth or paper but once they leave the flame they are no longer "annealing". No need to drop in water unless you like the "hiss" that's produced and you like waiting for cases to dry. Quenching IS NOT REQUIRED to anneal brass. Doesn't make the job better either.

As for speed? I anneal in batches uo to 500 and do so at the rate of 6 per minute or 350+ per hour. I've seen some setups where the cordless drill is attached to a hinge and the trigger locked on. Put a case in the socket with the drill pushed forward, a bungee cord or screen door spring pulls the drill back up into the flame. Count then push forward until the case falls into a container, add case, repeat. This allows the torch to be positioned in the right place to heat the neck/shoulder. Using the short torch tanks makes this easy and provides a better base for the torch.

Automated machines are nice but there's a cost associated to them. Sometimes more than they're worth.
 
Here is an alternate method. Works for me>

Annealing case necks by dipping them into molten lead that is held at about seven hundred degrees ‘F’ works well. Wheel weight alloy, which is approximately eighty nine parts lead, one part tin and ten parts antimony, melts at six hundred and nineteen degrees ‘F’ so you can safely set your lead alloy temperature at seven hundred degrees ‘F’. The use of a thermometer will take any guesswork out of the process. The reason for using lead for annealing is to keep the temperature low enough for proper uniform annealing, and that is simply not possible using the torch method. With a torch the case is often heated on one side more than the other, temperatures are not readily repeatable from case to case, and in falling over into the water, one side is quenched before the other.

To minimize the likelihood of lead ‘soldering’ itself to the brass case it is best to use as close to pure lead as possible (although any lead alloy will work). Anneal your cases with the fired primers left in, as that forms an airlock that keeps lead away from the inside of the case. With respect to annealing cases using molten lead, basically you: set the thermostat on your pot at seven hundred to eight hundred degrees ‘F’ pick up each case by the head and dip the neck of the cases about a quarter-inch into some powdered graphite or light oil (vegetable oil is fine). The oil keeps lead from sticking to the brass but, any lead that does stick is easily removed by a quick twist in steel wool while the case is still hot. Shake off any excess oil, dip the neck, shoulder, and about a quarter-inch of the case body into the molten lead and just as you begin to feel an uncomfortable degree of heat in your fingertips, drop the case into water. If you hold the cases in some other way than with your bare fingers, leave them in the molten lead from eight to twelve, but not more than fifteen seconds. When the case is hot enough that the lead does not cling to it, it is annealed. Pull the case up out of the lead, tap on the side of the case to remove any bits of lead (if the lead is really sticking, the case isn't annealed!), then drop it mouth down (straight) into a container that is mostly full of ice water. Following the anneal, it would be wise to closely inspect the inside of the case both visually and with a bent paper clip just to make sure there are no lead drippings adhering to the inside the case.

If you are left-handed, have the cases on the right side, the lead in the middle, and the ice water on the left. The cases go only one direction, to the left, and you use only one hand. If you are right handed, reverse the set-up. Because it only takes a few seconds per case, you can anneal hundreds of cases in an hour with this method. After the annealing process, remove the cases from the water, shake them out and use a piece of bronze wool to clean the annealed portion. This removes any residual lead and/or burned oil. Then, dry and tumble the cases to remove any traces of residual oil and they are ready to process.
 
Try as I might I have yet to find a quick process to make brass truly soft, except by way of the anomaly described above. Maybe I could get away with once-fired brass and save money that way.
 
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