TanklessPro
Member
But what do they really mean? Does that mean only from name brand manufacturers? Is there companies to stay away from? And how much should you spend, $100 for a bcg? $200 for a barrel?
People say "spend money on barrel and bcg"
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Jeremy2171
Member
For "most" people one of the DPMS used ARs they are currently selling is all they will ever need...
But if you need to throw money at an AR go ahead...
Finally..what will YOU be using it for?
But if you need to throw money at an AR go ahead...
Finally..what will YOU be using it for?
jeremy, that answer is nonsensical. most people will never even touch an AR, much less shoot one. the OP wasn't asking about most people. please reread his question.
tankless, i mean,
if you want accuracy, that comes from a quality barrel with a properly cut chamber and a square bolt. if those aren't right, nothing else on the rifle will fix it.
if you want reliability, again, most of the problems people have (if you exclude ammo, magazines and lube) are with the BCG and barrel
the wear parts are also the barrel, extractor, gas rings and bolt, so if you get quality ones, they'll last longer.
tankless, i mean,
if you want accuracy, that comes from a quality barrel with a properly cut chamber and a square bolt. if those aren't right, nothing else on the rifle will fix it.
if you want reliability, again, most of the problems people have (if you exclude ammo, magazines and lube) are with the BCG and barrel
the wear parts are also the barrel, extractor, gas rings and bolt, so if you get quality ones, they'll last longer.
OP
OP
TanklessPro
Member
Does $ equal quality?????
As with everything, you usually pay for quality...but just because something is expensive doesn't mean it is quality.
Different barrels for different uses too. If you want long life..you want chrome moly steel with a chrome lined bore. If you want the best accuracy, you are often going for stainless steel.
You want a Carpenter 158 or better shot peened MPI tested bolt either way.
Jackal
Member
All lowers are built to the same functional specs (or they are supposed to be). The lower just holds the magazine and the hammer/trigger group. The barrel/bcg is the main wear area, as has been previously stated. A good barrel/bcg will largely determine your rifles accuracy and reliability over the long haul. In general, any $200 (ish) barrel and $110+ BCG will be of good quality (I often use Ranier Arms).
tankless, what hoo said
quality usually isn't cheap. but you can shop smart. again it depends on what you want.
mfg usually cater to what they think their customers are going to do with the rifle. DPMS apparently thinks their customers are going to sit at a bench and shoot groups at paper, cause they make a pretty dang accurate rifle for not a lot of money. it's pretty common for them not to survive carbine classes though.
otoh, colt seems to think their customers will all be doing mag dumps at large targets, cause they make a pretty dang reliable rifle for not a lot of money. you're not going to win any bullseye matches with them though.
depending on what you want, either of those could be considered "quality" and still respectably priced. or you could look at brands like noveske, JP, KAC, etc that have a reputation for both accuracy and reliability, but at 2x the price.
quality usually isn't cheap. but you can shop smart. again it depends on what you want.
mfg usually cater to what they think their customers are going to do with the rifle. DPMS apparently thinks their customers are going to sit at a bench and shoot groups at paper, cause they make a pretty dang accurate rifle for not a lot of money. it's pretty common for them not to survive carbine classes though.
otoh, colt seems to think their customers will all be doing mag dumps at large targets, cause they make a pretty dang reliable rifle for not a lot of money. you're not going to win any bullseye matches with them though.
depending on what you want, either of those could be considered "quality" and still respectably priced. or you could look at brands like noveske, JP, KAC, etc that have a reputation for both accuracy and reliability, but at 2x the price.
ElToro
Member
What are you using it for ? 500 yards on coyotes ? Or range fun with zombie apocalypse accuracy ? Because you can spend entry level money and get a really good rifle or spend a lot more and get incremental improvement, IMO.
I have 2 ARs both colt complete 6720 and 6920 uppers on home built LMT lowers. Nearly identical both 5.56 chambers 1/7 twist barrels one is heavy and one is pencil profile. I have a bolt gun for hunting so my use is plinking and fun but I get good accuracy from the colt barrels. I have shot squirrels at 50-100 yards with them. I figure thats good enough for the end times. They are not match rifles and i know that. I paid about $700 delivered NIB for each upper including colt full auto grade BCG. FWIW
Again though. What are YOUR goals with this rifle ?
I have 2 ARs both colt complete 6720 and 6920 uppers on home built LMT lowers. Nearly identical both 5.56 chambers 1/7 twist barrels one is heavy and one is pencil profile. I have a bolt gun for hunting so my use is plinking and fun but I get good accuracy from the colt barrels. I have shot squirrels at 50-100 yards with them. I figure thats good enough for the end times. They are not match rifles and i know that. I paid about $700 delivered NIB for each upper including colt full auto grade BCG. FWIW
Again though. What are YOUR goals with this rifle ?
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OP
OP
TanklessPro
Member
I already own a Sig M400 and a Ruger SR556. I would like something a little more precise but no need for a match gun.
dprice3844444
member
http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/ar-15-m16-m4-rifle-barrels/ green mountain barrels,quality barrels,reasonable prices, chrome lined. melonited barrels are good,also. i like a quality chrome/nickel boron,np3 coated bolt carrier for ease of cleaning and wear issues.if you can afford it,strip the upper and send it to robar for an np3 treatment.cuts wear and makes sure it will work in extreme cold conditions.
Do you want it to be 5.56/.223? If you want accuracy, don't go for something which is chrome lined. Stainless is usually what the precision barrels are built with because it is easier to machine.
OP
OP
TanklessPro
Member
I have thought about 300 blackout but the cost is too high,so I guess I will stay 5.56. I know I can reload the 5.56 brass. I want this build to be a rifle and may build a 300 pistol next.
Outlaw Man
Member
I have a 20" Green Mountain barrel on one of my ARs. I only have iron sights on it, so I'm not trying to shoot ultra-small groups at long ranges. I have been able to hit everything I've aimed at, though.dprice3844444 said:
I also have a Fail Zero bolt/BCG. It's probably mostly overkill, though. There are some good options for less money. Still, no issues.
mastiffhound
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Quality BCGs aren't as expensive as most think, make sure the carrier is 8620 and the bolt is carpenter 158. Just because it's expensive doesn't always mean quality or equal specs. I have a bolt from a place many on here would consider a quality manufacturer, cost $75 for the bolt at the time, and I then have a lug fail. It was made from 8620 but nowhere on their site did they list that.
If they won't list what materials they use then don't buy it. Colt, Daniel Defense, Rainier Arms, Bravo Company (My first choice), and Palmetto State Armory (Make sure it says carpenter 158 in the description!) are all recommended. BCM, Rainier, and PSA always have sales so they are the first places I'll look.
As far as barrels, those same places all sell quality stuff with BCM SS410 barrels being the current hotness if your looking more for accuracy. 18" barrels are around $300 or a little more but BCM gets rave reviews and price to quality is very high with them. The SS410 they use is also harder and more corrosion resistant than 416 so it might hold it's accuracy for a little longer.
PSA sells FN hammer forged barrels but make sure you read the description before you buy because they sell "budget" stuff also. I got a 20" hammer forged FN barreled upper from them that will shoot 1" at a 100 easily and regularly shoots even a little under that if I really get focused. This is a chrome lined barrel, it didn't surprise me at all. I had an FNAR with a chrome lined barrel that shot under an inch and they also chrome line their precision bolt gun barrels with fantastic results.
I hope this helps, I hate to do such a long post but I have OCD and can't help it.
If they won't list what materials they use then don't buy it. Colt, Daniel Defense, Rainier Arms, Bravo Company (My first choice), and Palmetto State Armory (Make sure it says carpenter 158 in the description!) are all recommended. BCM, Rainier, and PSA always have sales so they are the first places I'll look.
As far as barrels, those same places all sell quality stuff with BCM SS410 barrels being the current hotness if your looking more for accuracy. 18" barrels are around $300 or a little more but BCM gets rave reviews and price to quality is very high with them. The SS410 they use is also harder and more corrosion resistant than 416 so it might hold it's accuracy for a little longer.
PSA sells FN hammer forged barrels but make sure you read the description before you buy because they sell "budget" stuff also. I got a 20" hammer forged FN barreled upper from them that will shoot 1" at a 100 easily and regularly shoots even a little under that if I really get focused. This is a chrome lined barrel, it didn't surprise me at all. I had an FNAR with a chrome lined barrel that shot under an inch and they also chrome line their precision bolt gun barrels with fantastic results.
I hope this helps, I hate to do such a long post but I have OCD and can't help it.
That's because, for the most part, the quality of the bcg and barrel make the most difference in an AR-15. They are the parts that see the most stress and wear and their tollerences are critical to the proper function and longevity of the rifle.
I'd suggest taking a look at what Bravo Company has to offer. Their combination of quality, price, and availability is hard to beat.
I was looking at just under $200 for the BCG and around $300 for the barrel (16", mid-length gas system)...so right around $500 for both
Exactly. And sometimes (rarely) you can stumble onto a good deal on quality for not a lot of money. I know a guy who just bought a BMW Z3 in nearly perfect condition (needs a new roof which is like $200) with 15,000 miles on it for $1000. Yeah I wanted to choke when I heard that. It was a $35,000 car when it was new. But deals like that are few and far between. I bought a good SUV for $300 once. It sat in the parking lot of a garage for a couple of years and the guy that owned it never paid for his repairs. I got the whole thing for the price of the repairs.
But I wouldn't hold your breath waiting on a deal like that. Quality does cost money usually but people will sell you junk for lots of money too. Be sure you check around before you buy something.
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Buy quality, as mentioned above. Make sure that the carrier key is staked and not investment cast. If you want to ensure a higher level of reliability look for a bolt that is MPI (Magnetic Particle Inspection) and HPT (High Pressure Tested). Bravo Company is good, AIM Surplus has a Spikes BCG for ~$140
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.a.../.223+Bolt+Carrier+Group&groupid=933&fprdct=1
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.a.../.223+Bolt+Carrier+Group&groupid=933&fprdct=1
I'd go as far as saying, don't even consider one which isn't MPI and HPT
Oh I just got hit with can-o-worms-shards...
So what about the use of the gun is the OP trying to optimize? Repeatable accuracy in a controlled (bench) environment? Many rounds fired and measured consecutively or one (or two shots out of a cold gun to bring down the fauna du jeur? Does carry weight matter? How about range of projectile (shape and weight) and distance down range?
It's hard to imagine that you could provide one solution that is best for each of the combinatoric possibilities that my questions could express.
But look, the firing mechanism is really important as it is the single man-machine interface that matters when shooting accurately. It helps you know how and when to position yourself and the gun the moment before it fires. Then the barrel ensures that when it fires, the bullet will behave will before it exits the gun, and the muzzle device will put that last nuance on it before it completely leaves the shooters control.
Less but important is the sight - allowing you to adjust to the movement, distance, lighting, weather between you and your target. For me this is incredibly important because it is a multi-dimensional computational problem (for computers) made even tougher when done only by the human brain. So the simpler the data types and the way they are rendered helps the human with this very hard job.
If you're on a range blasting away in limited time, you just need a heavy barrel to handle the heat without changing shape so much as to negate any learning from your prior shots. If you are hunting while firing only a few shots, the barrel can be less heat-durable since it won't be fired often. BUt those first two shots fired when cold have to be outstanding.
B
So what about the use of the gun is the OP trying to optimize? Repeatable accuracy in a controlled (bench) environment? Many rounds fired and measured consecutively or one (or two shots out of a cold gun to bring down the fauna du jeur? Does carry weight matter? How about range of projectile (shape and weight) and distance down range?
It's hard to imagine that you could provide one solution that is best for each of the combinatoric possibilities that my questions could express.
But look, the firing mechanism is really important as it is the single man-machine interface that matters when shooting accurately. It helps you know how and when to position yourself and the gun the moment before it fires. Then the barrel ensures that when it fires, the bullet will behave will before it exits the gun, and the muzzle device will put that last nuance on it before it completely leaves the shooters control.
Less but important is the sight - allowing you to adjust to the movement, distance, lighting, weather between you and your target. For me this is incredibly important because it is a multi-dimensional computational problem (for computers) made even tougher when done only by the human brain. So the simpler the data types and the way they are rendered helps the human with this very hard job.
If you're on a range blasting away in limited time, you just need a heavy barrel to handle the heat without changing shape so much as to negate any learning from your prior shots. If you are hunting while firing only a few shots, the barrel can be less heat-durable since it won't be fired often. BUt those first two shots fired when cold have to be outstanding.
B
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