Well, it finally happened (Saiga import ban)

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HOOfan_1 said:
Do we import anything else from Russia? Has an executive order banned any imports that are not firearms?
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Good question. Looks like their primary export is to the EU at ~45 percent. US makes up ~6 percent. Import from the US is negligible at best. There is absolutely nothing to these 'sanctions'. They are completely meaningless.

The EU has the problem. A big one. there is really nothing to see here.

Yet in the context of the OP. there is the issue of an alternate agenda perhaps. Which could prove more likely.
 
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HOOfan_1 said:
Has an executive order banned any imports that are not firearms?
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Yes. The EOs ban US Americans from doing any and all business with a huge array of Russian bad actors, both individuals and corporate entities.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/OFAC-Enforcement/Pages/20140716.aspx

barnbwt said:
It is kinda funny to see this particular sanction imposed, considering the entire Saiga US export line probably only makes a few million dollars a year --hardly the lynchpin in Ivan's plans.
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Firearms in particular are not banned.
 
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Firearms in particular are not banned.
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Oh, so there is some stuff from KC that can be imported? Or is there another firearm-maker that can import to this country (I thought they had all consolidated into the single entity)? I have also read that shell corporations could probably evade these barriers faster than they could be thrown up in any case.

TCB
 
To clarify:
Sam Cade, are you saying that they are still importing Saiga firearms? I checked the Treasury link that you mentioned, but I could not tell.
 
jeffmack said:
To clarify:
Sam Cade, are you saying that they are still importing Saiga firearms?
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No. Kalashnikov Concern does more than make firearms.

ALL products made by the Kalashnikov Concern are illegal to import into the United States since is illegal for a US American citizen to do any business with the Kalashnikov Concern.

The Feds said:
As part of its enforcement efforts, OFAC publishes a list of individuals and companies owned or controlled by, or acting for or on behalf of, targeted countries. It also lists individuals, groups, and entities, such as terrorists and narcotics traffickers designated under programs that are not country-specific. Collectively, such individuals and companies are called "Specially Designated Nationals" or "SDNs." Their assets are blocked and U.S. persons are generally prohibited from dealing with them. [09-10-02]
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Any idea on how this will affect ammo availablity? If the Wolf/Tula type stuff gets banned, ammo price across the board would be driven up drastically, and that would do FAR more damage to the American shooting community than only banning guns from one company.

Recent, repeated history would strongly indicate this is not the last effort on this front; the prez tends to pursue any line lacking opposition to excess. I honestly wouldn't put it past him to try removing sporting exemptions on cartridges by the end of this. They're pushing on 80%, armor piercing ammo, imports, parts kits, licensing... pretty much everything you don't need congressional approval for. Fancy that?
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"I've got a pen and a phone." :uhoh:
 
There's really no competition to the Saiga12
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Many consider the VEPR 12 to be an improvement over the Saiga 12. Saying its without competition simply isn't accurate
 
I haven't priced unconverted Saiga rifles in a while, but just a quick "once over" on gunbroker shows them at the lowest price of ~$500. I've noticed a few that were quite a bit more starting out.

When I got mine, it was ~$350. Guess I got mine at the right time.
 
Much Wolf ammo is made by Barnaul, so it seems that will be banned, as will Brown Bear, Golden Tiger, Silver/Gold Bear, Wolf Military Classic, Tula ammo, etc.
 
Originally Posted by HOOfan_1 View Post
Do we import anything else from Russia? Has an executive order banned any imports that are not firearms?
Good question. Looks like their primary export is to the EU at ~45 percent. US makes up ~6 percent. Import from the US is negligible at best. There is absolutely nothing to these 'sanctions'. They are completely meaningless.
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Good question...then why did you dodge it? There is a whole litany of sanctions against Russia including much more than Saigas.

Somebody mentioned the ban on Norinco AK's and its permanence. Its my understanding they were sanctioned for selling missiles to Iran so its a fairly different situation.
 
Jackal, is your post #87 confirmed or just supposition?
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I was careful to use the word "seems".:) It seems like Russian ammo will also be banned, if not now, then shortly. Either way, I'm hedging my bets and stocking up on things. I did the same thing a couple years ago and purchased about 3 cases of .22lr.....
 
Ah!!! "Seems". It's a really good word. :)

But I hear ya. Gonna stock up on Tula this weekend.
 
barnbwt said:
Isn't VEPR made by the same folks, though?
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If by the same folks you mean the Russian Federation Oligarchy, Yes.

From a while back:
http://rostec.ru/en/news/832

Molot Firearms becomes part of Russian Technologies State Corporation.

In the meantime, Russia’s Federal Antimonopoly Service (FAS) has approved Russian Technologies’ plan to acquire 100% in Molot Firearms.

Russian Technologies State Corporation became a shareholder in Molot Firearms LLC’s parent company Molot, which is currently in bankruptcy. Molot’s other majority shareholder, public OAO Concern Izhmash (controlled by Russian Technologies through OAO Izhmash, which is currently in the process of being wound up) was declared bankrupt in October 2011,” Russian FAS says in today’s announcement.

In an interesting development, Sergey Urzhumtsev was appointed new CEO of Molot Firearms LLC on 7 December 2012. Mr. Urzhumtsev is Head of Design and Technology Unit and Senior Designer at the public OAO Molot; he has worked at Vyatskiye-Poliany-based Molot for more than 15 years.

In the meantime, Vyatskiye Poliany-based Molot LLC may become part of the Kalashnikov Group. The expanded group is to include Concern IzhMash, Izhevsk Mechanical Engineering Plant, and, possibly, Molot, within the Kalashnikov Group, RIA Novosti reports citing an unnamed source who asked not to disclose his identity.
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JustinJ said:
Good question...then why did you dodge it? There is a whole litany of sanctions against Russia including much more than Saigas.
.
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I dodged nothing. Up to this very recent event only a few nefarious individuals were sanctioned.
These few recent and sundry sanctions are meaningless to the overall trade between these two nations. Which of coarse, is the point I was making. Again, their export to the US comprises less than 6% of their total export. Russia imports less then 3% of all imports from the US. I guess they don't like ARs.

No sanction from the US will have a desired effect on Russia. Yes it can effect the US gun community to a slight degree. But, as suggested, the EU has much more at stake in the matter than the US gun culture.

An interesting notion and a likely scenario: there will be a spinoff of one of these brands of AK made solely for US consumption if there is a demand. Similar to, if not exactly like, the Saiga/ VEPR line we already know. This is a very... Non event.
 
All the AK manufacturers are heavily dependent on American gun owners. I read that 40 percent of Kalashnikov Concern sales are to the U.S. consumer market. They will likely go bankrupt if they cannot sell Saigas to Americans. U.S. consumer sales is also the largest market for the companies in Romania and Bulgaria. Military use of AKs is in decline.
 
I don't see this as part of a 'plot' to ban arms. It will hurt the Russians which is the intent of the order. I'd also bet that if Putin moves towards a serious discussion about stopping hostilities and securing the peace in Ukraine, all the bans will be lifted. No one will have to wait until 2016. Moreover, any of the rifles now banned from import, if paid for and in American hands, can be sold, bought, traded without restriction. Just can't deal with the Russians.

I don't think the American manufacturers will be complaining. Buy American-isn't that part of patriotism? It puzzles me why we would want to buy Russian products at the same time they seem to be spitting in the world's face.
 
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if Putin moves towards a serious discussion about stopping hostilities and securing the peace in Ukraine, all the bans will be lifted. No one will have to wait until 2016.
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Because we all know how many EO's get repealed..... Just look at all the Chinese/Norinco guns currently coming into the country 20 years after Clinton banned them.....:banghead: Nope, they are likely gone for quite a while I'm afraid.
 
Sam1911 said:
You can buy and sell these guns that are already in country. You CANNOT import Chinese made AKs and SKSs any more. So instead of $89 Norinco SKSs, you have $400 Norinco SKSs. And the MAK-90 AK variants that everyone used to laugh at are considered premium.
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American gun makers love that and it seems a lot of gun owners love to pay a lot of money for guns that cost very little to make like a Glock or 2500 dollar scopes
 
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