Accuracy issue with Rem. 700 SPS

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One of my Son's came by this morning with a new 700 SPS SS chambered in 300 WM. He shot it last week end and ran some Factory RP, Win, FC, and Hornady through it. The glass on it is a Vortex he pulled of of another rifle for now, so we know the glass is fine. He shot it off a lead sled and couldn't get any groups to speak of, it was all over the paper and even off the paper, nothing even able to be considered as groups. He cleaned it about every 10 - 15 rounds.

Last night I loaded up some rounds for us to test this morning, nothing hot, just a mid range average load I've run in other 300 WM's. we swapped the scope just to completely eliminate that variable, yet again, it was all over the place, on and off the paper. Extreme spreads of 12" and more at 100 yds. and barely stayed on the paper at 50 yds..

I looked it over real well and found that that only one lug has contact marks. The stock is supposed to be pressure bedded, but it's only making partial contact and rattles when I tap on it. The bolt face looks like it was finished with a broken piece of glass. So bad it looked like a wash board with raised sharp edges, never seen a face this bad and is leaving major sharp ripples in the primers. The brass has some dig marks, but only on one side, just above the belt. It's round, not egg shaped, and the necks are nice and concentric well centered. The chamber has some very light machine lines, but nothing that would be considered as out of the ordinary for a production rifle.

He doesn't have time to wait on Remington (12-14 weeks) being that he has a hunt coming up before it would get back to him. I've fixed minor accuracy issues many times before, but nothing as extreme as this.

So I can fix the stock issue, polish the bolt face, and lap the lugs, but would like to know if someone here can affirm that one or all of these issues could cause such extreme accuracy issues, and it is extreme.

GS
 
Tupperware stock? Relieve the pressure point and bed the front action ring and chamber area of the barrel. Check the crown. De copper the barrel thoroughly.
If all this fails, I would say you got a bad barrel. It happens.
 
If it's new send it back and loan him one of your guns for his hunt, no point taking one that doesn't shoot straight.
If you can't send it back see if you can find a book called centrefire rifle accuracy by W Hambly-Clark JNR. Because this rifle sounds like it's got many issues, how ever I'd probably start with the bolt by the sound of it. Both locking lugs need to contact or you start losing accuracy right there.
 
i know you said you don't want to wait for remington by sending it back but that's just what i'd do with one that as bad as you say. no point in doing all the work you mention if it doesn't fix the problem.

will the dealer take it back/replace it?
 
i recently re barreled my Remington 700 300 win mag with a factory barrel. mine had the same brass scraping that you are describing. i used a 3/4" wood dowel with 2 different angles that i ground onto each end (one about 45 degrees, and the other about 30 degrees) and used fine valve grinding compound to remove the burrs from the edges of the chamber. as far as the accuracy is concerned, the stock rattling is a major red flag to me. i would remove the barreled action from the stock, and look carefully at the stock, and any and every place contact is being made. if you find something out of order, you probably have your answer. if not, one thing you can do, that will not permanently effect things, is to use a small thin piece of rubber, place it where the barrel meets the stock (pressure point) (removing the pressure point will likely give Remington an excuse for the accuracy problems. i did remove it on my rifle, because of the walking it produced on shots 2,3,&4. but my gun had no accuracy problems to begin with.). push backwards on the barrel (like recoil would) and tighten all of the screws. the piece of rubber will move the point of impact up a few inches, but should stop the wild shotgun like patterns you are describing. of course, check the scope mounts as well. anything loose can and will effect accuracy. if none of the above will fix the accuracy problems, i would definitely send the gun back to Remington. or, if you have a really good, long time dealer, he may go to bat for you, send it back, and give you a new gun off the rack. but that is getting rarer by the day now. once you start messing with things, it gives Remington excuses to use against you in court, if it ever goes that far. one last word on accuracy. do not assume that "premium ammunition" will give premium accuracy. for what ever reason, the new barrel on my BDL likes the cheapest Federal ammo WAY better than any of the premium ammo i have tried.
 
X-Wrench, funny you mentioned using rubber strips to dampen the pressure points, that was my first move this morning, as I've used that method many times over the years with other's that have had similar, yet never this extreme accuracy issues. I've already checked all mounting systems, the glass and stock, everything is properly tightened.

Tomorrow I'm going to start lapping the lugs, and this has been something I've found necessary on many a production rigs. Then I'm going to inspect the bedding and also going to relieve the pressure on the barrel where Rem like's to pressure bed it. I have had a good deal of experience working with these weak stock designs Rem has been using on these, so reinforcing / glassing the fore end is going to be necessary to effectively float it. And I'll clean the bolt face up and polish the chamber.

It could be a bad barrel, wouldn't be the first. But I'm having doubts as my Son said he got a good 3 shot group last week with it before things went south. He has been struggling with this for about a month. The crown looks fine, and in fact he had a break installed two weeks ago and asked the builder to make sure all was good up at the muzzle. Why he didn't have the guy address the accuracy problem then is beyond my comprehension.

Actually the first 2 rounds were in the same hole at 50 yds. this morning with factory ammo, as we hadn't zeroed it yet and just wanted to see where it was. But after the first two rounds the groups became completely unpredictable, extreme high left, then right, off the paper, and then I got one 4 shot vertical string of about 1.5" and thought I was getting some where. I used an 8 charge tier series of reloads, 9 rounds per tier, at 3 different oal's per tier, beginning with .010" off, .020" off, .025"off, and .030" off. None of the variations within the tiers produced anything to suggest one was better than the other. Of course, we allowed the barrel to cool during all of this, so no fault there.

Thanks for reinforcing my thoughts as to how to proceed. Sending it back to rem is a no go with him. he is dead set on doing what ever he has to to get it running right, including putting another stock on it if necessary.

GS
 
I started on that rifle right after my last post a little bit ago and think I've got it nailed down. From contact bedding at the front stock screw region was making inconsistent contact, reason being that the barrel was touching in various spots down the entire length of the fore stock, horrible job by Rem.. I used a transfer material to check contact, and fore stock issue was obviously keeping the action from bedding down consistently and solid. It looked like they, Remington, knew it was iffy as I found a shim that was used to try and Mickey Mouse the action fit, but to no avail. So tomorrow I'm going to get to work on relieving all those points of contact on the fore end causing this.

I started lapping the bolt. It was only making a very thin line of contact on the one lug, so I've got a ways to go, but at least now I've got first sign of contact on the other lug now and about 30% on the only one that was making contact, I just need to finish getting them consistently contacting.

Once I have those two major issues resolved, I'll clean up the rough bolt face and polish the chamber. I'm betting it will group quite nicely when I'm done. I might give the barrel a quick polishing lap also, it feels a bit rough when I run a dry patch through it, well see.

GS
 
All of the conditions you mention can affect accuracy -- especially bedding and bolt lug contact. And as others mention, check the scope mounts. I know people who sweat the scope mounts with solder.

The problem you face is this -- MAYBE you can get the rifle tuned up and shooting right. But what if you can't? Then you'll have even less time for factory turn-around before it's really needed and the factory may claim that your "fixes" have voided the warranty.
 
gamestalker:

The first-ever Weatherby Mark V I bought in about 1987, in .270 Wea Mag, grouped about 12" at 100 yards. I shoot a whooole lot better than that. I finally returned it to Weatherby. It had two problems: 1) the barrel was out-of-round, and 2) the barrel was screwed-in crooked to the receiver.

Geno
 
As for sending it back to Rem, that isn't happening, my Son simply refuses to do it. If need be, he'll have it re-barreled and up grade to an after market stock before he'll send it back, he's just that way. It was touching on the right, left, bottom, just plain terrible factory work.

Scope hardware is solid, no issue there.

I'll finish fitting the action tomorrow. I'm taking great care to get it fitted properly, I'm rather OCD about my tune up's in this respect. I added some glass to the fore stock also to reinforce the well known weak design. Why in the world are they still using that pathetic stock anyway?

I finished lapping the bolt tonight, got the face looking perfect also. The face was so bad it was impossible to even read the primers after firing the rounds. My neighbor / buddy is well equipped and did a button lap on the barrel, so it's very clean, no issues there at all. It wasn't to bad to begin with, but we are doing all we can to alleviate the problems and variables. I also polished the chamber, which was very rough at closer inspection. Lots of machine flaws.

In more than 30 yrs. of tuning production rigs, this 700 was by far the worst I've ever seen. As for the machine work alone, it looked like every cutting tool was chipped or broken and I can't imagine how it made it out of the factory in that condition.

GS
 
gamestalker said:
Sending it back to rem is a no go with him. he is dead set on doing what ever he has to to get it running right, including putting another stock on it if necessary.
Click to expand...

May not help- I have a 700 in 308 that groups poor.
Tried a Choate Ultimate Sniper stock on it, not much better. 2nd best thing I found was one of those rubber barrel detuners on it. Best thing I found was buying a Howa 1500 and an American in 308, both shoot WAY better groups than my 700.
 
i have never had a rem or a win that bad from the factory, i would have boxed it up and back to rem it would have gone, if the dealer would not have taken it back. i bought a 700 rem .223 vls new and after breaking in the barrel a friend shot a .457 inch three group at 300yds with a 6.5x20 leupold and black hills ammo. he has offered to buy that rifle many times, i have never shot that small a group with that rifle but have shot .75 three shot groups with it at 300yds at the varmite shoots. eastbank.
 
In more than 30 yrs. of tuning production rigs, this 700 was by far the worst I've ever seen. As for the machine work alone, it looked like every cutting tool was chipped or broken and I can't imagine how it made it out of the factory in that condition.
Click to expand...
Way back in 1970, when I got back from my second tour in Viet Nam, I decided to graduate from the .30-30 Winchester and buy a "real" hunting rifle.

The Model 70 Winchester was out, of course -- they ruined it in '64. So I looked at the Remington 700. In those days, they used the same finish on Remington stocks that were used on bowling pins -- it was a selling point with them.

The checkering was impressed, and everyone I looked at had splinters raised around the border of the checkering -- and they just slathered the finish on over the splinters.

I bought a Ruger M77 and never thought about buying a Remington again.
 
I may have run into another problem. Today I took a peek down the freshly installed muzzle brake and saw that the barrel has been crudely cut. Now I'm not at all familiar with the installation procedure of a brake, but this looks like you would expect to see when someone saws a barrel off with a hack saw. The brake is crowned, but the barrel is not, and it is very ugly and obviously just crudely hacked off and the brake installed over it.

Is this an accuracy issue? I would personally think so, but like I said, i don't know.

GS
 
I was going to suggest the break itself to make sure bullets were clearing it? Unscrew the break and check the barrel. Maybe put a few through it with out break installed. As much as you've put into it I'd rebarrel ane eat loses. Make sure the threads are cut square in the reciever. Question, did your sons buddy remove the barrel from action to thread the muzzle? I'd take it to another smith. Ask how he cut the barrel? Did he lathe it?
 
I'm actually in a bit of shock, cause the guy who did the brake has been around Tucson for some 40 yrs. and is know to be among some of the best builders / smiths around. However, I also know that he farms some of his work out, as he is often over loaded with work.

And yes, the bullets are clearing the brake, that was one of the first things I checked.

And ya, this is absolutely 100% a NIB rifle, no question about that.

GS
 
The problem with a poor crown is the base of the bullet is critical to accuracy. The bullet breaks the gas seal when it clears the muzzle, and if the crown isn't perfectly square, one side breaks the seal before the other, tipping the bullet and creating the effect you have observed on the target.
 
Thanks for reinforcing what I've known since I began shooting many years ago Vern. It's just that I am in such disbelief that this builder / smith would have let it out the door like that. This is an obvious game changer, and if it were my rifle I would be demanding that the barrel properly crowned, and done expeditiously and ahead of any other work in the waiting line.

In addition to rectifying the situation I would inform this guy that the internet can testify to good and bad experiences, and to a very large crowd.

Thanks,
GS
 
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