I have a fellow wanting to buy my SW M&P 15X but he doesn't have a valid Ky Driver license but he did ask if his Military ID would work. I've never ran across this before and wondering how you would handle it?? Looking for answers!! Sorry if I posted this in the wrong forum.
License Question
- Thread starter kyarcher
- Start date
- Status
Bruno2
Member
Why would there be a problem?
WestKentucky
Member
It's really iffy. I would take it to an FFL who can do a transfer to him if he brings his orders showing he is stationed in ky. If it's Ft Campbell I recommend the shell shop in hopkinsville. If it's ft Knox I can't really make a recommendation other than to say that knob creek is pretty cool and would probably do it. Will cost a bit but will guarantee it's done properly and legally.
GoWolfpack
Member
- Joined
- May 13, 2009
- Messages
- 522
He needs to show you something that proves he is a legal resident of KY. In the case of military, you would need to see his orders stationing him in Kentucky. No reason you can't handle the sale yourself, but I would familiarize myself with what the orders look like before doing the deed.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
If he's stationed locally, all you'd need to do is call his Orderly Room to verify that he is indeed stationed there. You don't need to tell them why you are verifying.
But the point is that if the seller has any doubts, the buyer will need to convince the seller that he [the buyer] is a Kentucky resident for the purposes of buying a gun. It would be a federal felony for the seller to sell the gun to someone he "knows or has reasonable cause to believe" is not a resident of Kentucky.
The definition of "State of residence" for the purposes of federal law on the transfer of guns is (27 USC 478.11):
The definition of "State of residence" for the purposes of federal law on the transfer of guns is (27 USC 478.11):
Last edited:
RustyShackelford
member
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2006
- Messages
- 4,018
Red flag.....
How can he have a military ID but no valid state DL?
There's something more to this story. Does the buyer not want to share his DL #? Does he have a criminal background or outstanding warrants?
The whole deal sounds odd.
If I were selling a firearm, if someone "didn't have" or "wouldn't give me" his DL then Id walk off.
If your state/area allows private gun sales, then IDs shouldn't be a problem. But if you are required to go thru a FFL, then the buyers & sellers should be legit.
How can he have a military ID but no valid state DL?
There's something more to this story. Does the buyer not want to share his DL #? Does he have a criminal background or outstanding warrants?
The whole deal sounds odd.
If I were selling a firearm, if someone "didn't have" or "wouldn't give me" his DL then Id walk off.
If your state/area allows private gun sales, then IDs shouldn't be a problem. But if you are required to go thru a FFL, then the buyers & sellers should be legit.
Theohazard
Member
Easy, he never got a KY drivers license. I was stationed at Camp LeJeune for four years and I never got a NC drivers license. And most of the Marines I served with did the same thing: Very few of them got NC drivers licenses unless the one from their home state expired.RustyShackelford said:
Theohazard
Member
It's not weird, it's completely normal for people in the military to not have in-state IDs. But I agree that you shouldn't sell to him unless he can definitely prove that he's a resident of KY. If he provides a copy of his orders that should suffice (along with his military ID).kyarcher said:
Hurryin' Hoosier
Member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2012
- Messages
- 635
Reading these posts sure shows who has - and who doesn't have - a military background.
RustyShackelford
member
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2006
- Messages
- 4,018
DLs....
By DL I mean any valid DL from any state not just KY.
Of course, you can keep your valid state DL if you are stationed in a different state.
When I was on active duty, you needed a valid DL so you could sign vehicles out of the post motor pool. You had to have your state DL & your motor pool card on you when you drove. GSA/gas cards & the car keys were kept in woodland camo logs.
Rusty
PS; Id still be leery of a gun sale without a valid DL. A service member might be okay, but I was in the military with some real wing-nuts too, .
By DL I mean any valid DL from any state not just KY.
Of course, you can keep your valid state DL if you are stationed in a different state.
When I was on active duty, you needed a valid DL so you could sign vehicles out of the post motor pool. You had to have your state DL & your motor pool card on you when you drove. GSA/gas cards & the car keys were kept in woodland camo logs.
Rusty
PS; Id still be leery of a gun sale without a valid DL. A service member might be okay, but I was in the military with some real wing-nuts too,
.Willie Sutton
Member
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2013
- Messages
- 2,025
How can he have a military ID but no valid state DL?
Because you are not required to change your DL when you PCS. Many guys live with the license from the state where they entered service for their entire 20 year plus careers.
If he's got orders to a posting in your state, you're good to go. No biggie. Don't hassle the guy if he has orders (which show he's a resident) and ID so you know it's actually him. Or ask for a phone bill, utility bill, etc. if he lives off base. The determination just needs to be in good faith and satisfy you.
I sent the fellow a email stating I'd only sell through a ffl. The idea of not having a Ky drivers license just sounds a little weird to me.
It's absolutely normal. You obviously never served, which is fine, but don't give the guy a hard time if you otherwise are inclined to sell to him.
Willie
.
Because you are not required to change your DL when you PCS. Many guys live with the license from the state where they entered service for their entire 20 year plus careers.
If he's got orders to a posting in your state, you're good to go. No biggie. Don't hassle the guy if he has orders (which show he's a resident) and ID so you know it's actually him. Or ask for a phone bill, utility bill, etc. if he lives off base. The determination just needs to be in good faith and satisfy you.
I sent the fellow a email stating I'd only sell through a ffl. The idea of not having a Ky drivers license just sounds a little weird to me.
It's absolutely normal. You obviously never served, which is fine, but don't give the guy a hard time if you otherwise are inclined to sell to him.
Willie
.
RustyShackelford
member
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2006
- Messages
- 4,018
Off track....
I think the reply posts or remarks are a bit off track.
This happens sometimes when either people read the topic quickly then the fingers start flying or when the forum member doesn't really explain the question.
If the person has no state DL but has a military ID(a 2A when I was a MP) that's way different then having a non KY state drivers license.
I think the reply posts or remarks are a bit off track.
This happens sometimes when either people read the topic quickly then the fingers start flying or when the forum member doesn't really explain the question.
If the person has no state DL but has a military ID(a 2A when I was a MP) that's way different then having a non KY state drivers license.
I have been out of the Army for many years, but I don't recall any Regulation that requires a service member to have a state driver's license. In fact, a military driver's license can be issued without the holder having or ever having had a state driver's license. Further, both the state driver's license and vehicle registration/plates from a member's home state are valid for his or her term of service.
The 4473 states "If an individual is a member of the Armed Forces on active duty, his or her state of residence ALSO is the state in which his or her permanent duty station is located." Noite the word "also". A service member can buy a gun in either his home state, using his home address, or in the state in which his permanent duty station is located. He cannot buy a gun in a state in which he is on TDY, though.
Jim
The 4473 states "If an individual is a member of the Armed Forces on active duty, his or her state of residence ALSO is the state in which his or her permanent duty station is located." Noite the word "also". A service member can buy a gun in either his home state, using his home address, or in the state in which his permanent duty station is located. He cannot buy a gun in a state in which he is on TDY, though.
Jim
newfalguy101
Member
For what its worth a Drivers license is NOT a requirement to buy a firearm, the requirement is for a government issued photo ID. A drivers license is generally used as a default because just the vast majority of people have them and they are easily recognized for what they are.
HRnightmare
Member
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2014
- Messages
- 630
UMM if you call my orderly room they re going to tell you that is not your business. I would also highly suggest you do NOT give out the number to your orderly room to some guy selling a gun to you...
HRnightmare
Member
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2014
- Messages
- 630
You have CLEARLY never served...If he had outstanding warranted to you think he would be serving on active duty???
1911 guy
Member
For gun purchase requirements, a military ID and permanent orders to a military installation within that state satisfy the residency requirement. Any FFL in the country will accept that. I bought several guns that way. As for the drivers license, I had the same experience myself. Ohio DL expired but i had a military DL. Renewed my Ohio when i went home on leave, but for a short period of time I did not have a valid state issued DL.
Temporary orders do NOT qualify. Just ask for a copy of his military ID and a copy of his orders. He should be able to provide both within a few days, depending on how quick his Admin Dept. is at getting him the PCS (permanent change of station) order copy.
Temporary orders do NOT qualify. Just ask for a copy of his military ID and a copy of his orders. He should be able to provide both within a few days, depending on how quick his Admin Dept. is at getting him the PCS (permanent change of station) order copy.
Willie Sutton
Member
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2013
- Messages
- 2,025
"How can he have a military ID but no valid state DL?"
I'm confused. Are we discussing selling cars or guns? 
"the requirement is for a government issued photo ID"
Nope. No such requirement for a private sale.
If he had outstanding warranted to you think he would be serving on active duty???
^ This.
Seriously... for all of the above reasons, there's no need for him to have one.
Willie
.
I'm confused.
Are we discussing selling cars or guns? "the requirement is for a government issued photo ID"
Nope. No such requirement for a private sale.
If he had outstanding warranted to you think he would be serving on active duty???
^ This.
Seriously... for all of the above reasons, there's no need for him to have one.
Willie
.
A lot of this discussion is really irrelevant to the OP's issue. It really doesn't matter whether the buyer doesn't have to have a drivers' license or does have to have a drivers' license or any of these other red herrings.
The OP (seller) would be committing a federal felony if he knows or has reasonable cause to believe that the buyer is not a resident of Kentucky. The OP apparently has his doubts, and so he could be at substantial risk selling the gun to this buyer.
So the question is: What can the buyer reasonably do to demonstrate to the OP's satisfaction that he is a resident of Kentucky, as "State of Residence" is defined in 27 CFR 478.11? If the buyer is not a resident of Kentucky (as "State of Residence" is defined in 27 CFR 478.11), the OP can not legally sell him the gun. If the OP has doubts, he should not sell him the gun.
So all this business about drivers' licenses and military IDs and military drivers' licenses is beside the point. What the buyer would need to do, if he wants the gun, is find a way to convince the OP (seller) that, if true, he (the buyer) is a resident of Kentucky (as "State of Residence" is defined in 27 CFR 478.11). The most obvious way to perhaps do that is to show the OP a copy of his orders making Kentucky his permanent duty station.
And BTW, unless the buyer can show Kentucky residence, a Kentucky FFL won't do the transfer.
The OP (seller) would be committing a federal felony if he knows or has reasonable cause to believe that the buyer is not a resident of Kentucky. The OP apparently has his doubts, and so he could be at substantial risk selling the gun to this buyer.
So the question is: What can the buyer reasonably do to demonstrate to the OP's satisfaction that he is a resident of Kentucky, as "State of Residence" is defined in 27 CFR 478.11? If the buyer is not a resident of Kentucky (as "State of Residence" is defined in 27 CFR 478.11), the OP can not legally sell him the gun. If the OP has doubts, he should not sell him the gun.
So all this business about drivers' licenses and military IDs and military drivers' licenses is beside the point. What the buyer would need to do, if he wants the gun, is find a way to convince the OP (seller) that, if true, he (the buyer) is a resident of Kentucky (as "State of Residence" is defined in 27 CFR 478.11). The most obvious way to perhaps do that is to show the OP a copy of his orders making Kentucky his permanent duty station.
And BTW, unless the buyer can show Kentucky residence, a Kentucky FFL won't do the transfer.
1911 guy
Member
Quote:
And BTW, unless the buyer can show Kentucky residence, a Kentucky FFL won't do the transfer.
Absolutely true. The potential buyer is either a resident of Ky. by virtue of permanent orders or not. No residency, no sale. If the potential buyer can't cough up a copy of his orders, then the OP has reason to doubt residency.
D.L. is moot if he has orders and a military ID.
And BTW, unless the buyer can show Kentucky residence, a Kentucky FFL won't do the transfer.
Absolutely true. The potential buyer is either a resident of Ky. by virtue of permanent orders or not. No residency, no sale. If the potential buyer can't cough up a copy of his orders, then the OP has reason to doubt residency.
D.L. is moot if he has orders and a military ID.
RustyShackelford
member
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2006
- Messages
- 4,018
Military Police....
I was on active duty in the MPs, Military Police(what is now 31B).
We were taught to ask for both the service member's state issued DL & the DoD/2A ID card.
This was during traffic stops that involved government issued motor vehicles.
And yes even active duty troops can have active warrants or commit crimes.
Do you think a civilian sworn LE officer doing a traffic stop on a service member just looks at a DL, then says; "okay, go ahead" .
Service members on active duty can commit crimes then same way private citizens can. Murder, armed robbery, car theft, rape, aggravated assault, etc.
The US Disciplinary Barracks at Fort Leavenworth KS are filled with convicted killers, rapists, robbers, child molesters, etc.
I was on active duty in the MPs, Military Police(what is now 31B).
We were taught to ask for both the service member's state issued DL & the DoD/2A ID card.
This was during traffic stops that involved government issued motor vehicles.
And yes even active duty troops can have active warrants or commit crimes.
Do you think a civilian sworn LE officer doing a traffic stop on a service member just looks at a DL, then says; "okay, go ahead" .
Service members on active duty can commit crimes then same way private citizens can. Murder, armed robbery, car theft, rape, aggravated assault, etc.
The US Disciplinary Barracks at Fort Leavenworth KS are filled with convicted killers, rapists, robbers, child molesters, etc.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked