Kynoch
member
That's precisely why the NRA should not have used the word.
NRA launches anti-Bloomberg ad campaign
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That's precisely why the NRA should not have used the word.
Kynoch
member
Your comment illustrates very clearly why the NRA and the pro-2A camp in general struggles so mightily with PR matters. In simplest terms, you don't get it and the fact that you don't is costly to my RKBA.
ljnowell
Member
Theohazard
Member
Except when people like you intentionally alienate fellow gun-rights supporters over unrelated political issues, you're hurting our right to bear arms. Whereas people like Kynoch are trying to remove these stupid partisan divides and include more people in our pro-Second Amendment cause.ljnowell said:
Ljnowell, your partisan attitude is actively hurting our cause. You might as well just donate money to Bloomberg and be done with it.
The NRA should have themed their commercial on a thing nobody likes: hypocrites.
They could of had a montage of anti-gun politicians and public figures showing or stating their disgust for private gun-ownership while pointing out that they have guns or have private security that has guns.
I'm positive that there are mountains of material.
They could of had a montage of anti-gun politicians and public figures showing or stating their disgust for private gun-ownership while pointing out that they have guns or have private security that has guns.
I'm positive that there are mountains of material.
jerkface11
Member
I still fail to see how alienating people who vote for anti-gun politicians is somehow worse for the second amendment than actually voting for anti-gun politicians.
Sav .250
Member
Anti- gun folks are out there. They can be anybody, group, organization,
even .....Liberals.
If the shoe fits..........
even .....Liberals.
If the shoe fits..........
Sam Cade
Member
I am very disappointed if that is what you think the content of this thread has been.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_bias
Someone posited "What happens when the tent gets to big and tries to be everything for every body is that the whole movement gets diluted to the point that it means nothing.".
That's not even possible as long as the message if focused on real Antis. Marginalize that group and we have the best chance of the voting public not identifying with them and with us.
As to why the thread is open, what name calling or partisan politics has gone on in the thread? Disagreement on how the NRA should have packaged that message to appeal to the greatest number of people and marginalize Antis is why the discussion is going on.
That's not even possible as long as the message if focused on real Antis. Marginalize that group and we have the best chance of the voting public not identifying with them and with us.
As to why the thread is open, what name calling or partisan politics has gone on in the thread? Disagreement on how the NRA should have packaged that message to appeal to the greatest number of people and marginalize Antis is why the discussion is going on.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
Identifying as liberal or independent is not the same as voting for anti-gun politicians. I am a centrist independent who is center-left on social issues, and I vote for the pro-gun choice or leave that spot on the ballot blank. Saying that people like me should either embrace all of social conservatism or go home---or lumping us in with Bloomberg and Feinstein---doesn't further the NRA's mission at all, IMO.
rbernie
Contributing Member
Oh, freakin' spare me. One of the historically most common and worn-out excuses from the folk that don't fully align with THR's content or moderation has been to trot out the accusation that either we're a bunch of 'closet liberals' or a bunch of 'slack jawed rednecks', depending on which pole the accusation happened to come from. It's always struck me as an utterly lame and intellectually deficient accusation, since it is inherently based on scant knowledge of the ACTUAL political leanings of the site's members or staff.
It might surprise you to learn that the Mod Squad is about as politically diverse as the larger RKBA community, and that the THR membership is by all observation equally as diverse. The one thing that this site's staff and membership does seem to be united behind is the notion that the RKBA is a social issue and not a political one, and therefore no political party gets to claim it as their own. Historically, by the way, that has proven to be true (even as one political party is far more overt in their assails against the RKBA than t'other).
Well, black population in DC as of the 2012 census was 50.1% vs 14.1% for the USA as a whole. I would expect their rates to be "blows all the states out of the water" higher.
I'm just pointing out that there's more at play here than just stringent gun laws not working.
Sam Cade
Member
Did you quote the wrong post?
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
rbernie said:
You forgot jack-booted, Nazi thug.
Some years back I was called a pinko-commie, bleading heart liberal and a jack-booted, totalitarian brownshirt both in the same day.
I briefly thought about having an identity crisis, but I got over it.
Sam Cade
Member
Ken is a complicated guy. 
That just means you're doing it right then.
Probably couldn't decide whether to have that crisis or not just like you couldn't decide to be a brownshirt or a pinko.
Pink and brown actually look pretty good together. At least they did when hippies weren't afraid to wear pink. I'll pass for less than PC reasons.The one thing not being mentioned in this thread is that commercials should do MORE than just try to get voters to the polls. That certainly should matter but we should also care about winning the hearts and minds of the country. Even if the ad doesn't convince a dyed in the wool liberal to vote for the more likely to support 2A issues conservatives in elections we can still benefit from moving the needle on polls that are taken. It doesn't do us much good to insult people who might actually take our side in opinion polls and there's no doubt that politicians stick their finger in the air to see which way the wind is blowing every chance they get. And mostly they do that by looking at polls. If they see that a lot of otherwise liberal people support the 2A they will be less inclined to try to push gun control issues. They obviously want those control laws whether or no but many of them don't want to ruin their joyride in Washington. Clearly there were some libs that voted to recall the gun grabbers in CO for example. That will definitely make a dent in the gung ho gun grabber march to eliminate all 2A rights.
We lose too many of these battles to alienate anyone that might help us in any way. Heck those liberals might have joined the NRA to fight for the 2A if they hadn't been insulted by the NRA. Not all liberal causes are bad. Not all liberals are loons. We need to stop adopting the tactics of the left which drive wedges between groups and make them choose one side or the other. They accuse us of all being right wing. It makes it seem they are right when we attack liberals. It isn't liberals we are fighting. It's gun grabbers. Someone who wants more government spending, for example, doesn't automatically want gun control.
One of my best friends is a liberal in almost every respect except the 2A. We shoot together a lot. We've been friends since we were in grade school. I don't want the NRA driving him away. He might well join the NRA despite being liberal on all issues besides guns but if they insult him like that he isn't likely to join up.
Heck my brother is a card carrying union liberal type. We grew up shooting as one of our main pastimes. How does it help us for the NRA to slam liberals when some of them support the 2A? If anything they might drive him away from the cause by doing that. Why would he want to associate with a group that demonizes him?
I used to support women's rights when it was about equal pay for equal work and things like that. When it became about all men being rapists who want to keep their wives barefoot and pregnant I stopped supporting their cause. They drove me away. I don't want the NRA doing the same thing to people who support the 2A now and insulting them is a good way to drive them away.
jcwit
member
Damed if they do, damed if they don't.
Oh well, I like the commercials.
Oh well, I like the commercials.
Arizona_Mike
Member
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There are these anti-Bloomberg commercials targeted at "flyover country" and there are some even newer pro-NRA short adds that are running nationwide (including on Fox News). I think are two separate campaigns.
Mike
Mike
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Kynoch
member
The point is that you damage the overall pro-2A effort. I do not.
Kynoch
member
Did you honestly feel you could sell that here? Really?
The point is this: The is absolutely no upside to offending/alienating pro-2A individuals by using the term "liberals" in a pejorative manner. Absolutely none.
Can you wrap your noggin around that without introducing extraneous variables or not?
Kynoch
member
Anyone else here listen to "Gun Talk" with Tom Gresham last Sunday? I'm the "liberal" (he got that part wrong but no big deal) who emailed him about the NRA's obtuse use of the term "liberal" in their commercial.
I don't know if some of Tom's callers are truly as ignorant as they sounded or if they're simply so filled with hate that they can no longer think straight any longer? Tom's message was simple -- there's no upside to using "liberals" as a pejorative term -- it offends many pro-2A individuals, no matter how difficult this might be for some to grasp. Tom DID NOT say:
* To vote for anti-2A politicos (liberal or not.)
* To join the Democratic Party.
Some simply can't grasp (or don't want to grasp) the most simple of things -- Using "liberals" as a pejorative term offends many pro-2A individuals with absolutely zero upside.
I don't know if some of Tom's callers are truly as ignorant as they sounded or if they're simply so filled with hate that they can no longer think straight any longer? Tom's message was simple -- there's no upside to using "liberals" as a pejorative term -- it offends many pro-2A individuals, no matter how difficult this might be for some to grasp. Tom DID NOT say:
* To vote for anti-2A politicos (liberal or not.)
* To join the Democratic Party.
Some simply can't grasp (or don't want to grasp) the most simple of things -- Using "liberals" as a pejorative term offends many pro-2A individuals with absolutely zero upside.
Kynoch
member
Poppycock. Not one person would have complained about using another word (one that actually made sense) in place of "liberals" on that commercial. Not one.
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