Most likely SHTF near you?
- Thread starter Tom Bri
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JamisJockey
member
Earthquake. A serious one would possibly shut down the 4 routes into/out of the Salt Lake Valley. The potential then of looting and scrounging would become a problem.
Blizzard. Widespread blizzard conditions could do the same thing, but probably not for very long.
Blizzard. Widespread blizzard conditions could do the same thing, but probably not for very long.
ID_shooting
Member
I can't even concieve of a terrorist knowing where Boise, Idaho is much less wanting to attack it (our governor acctually barricared off the state house building with HUGE concrete barriors right after Sept. 11th 
) My biggest worry is this place:
http://www.inel.gov/
http://www.theledger.com/static/americanimp/1122_idaho.html
The funny part, back in 1999, I was in a meeting room at HP and we were discussing our Y2K plans and I asked the room "Do you realize that we live within 200 miles of the largest concentration of nuclear reactors in the world, and most of them were built before 1965"
LOL, you should have seen the look and the silence everyone suddenly got
) My biggest worry is this place:http://www.inel.gov/
http://www.theledger.com/static/americanimp/1122_idaho.html
The funny part, back in 1999, I was in a meeting room at HP and we were discussing our Y2K plans and I asked the room "Do you realize that we live within 200 miles of the largest concentration of nuclear reactors in the world, and most of them were built before 1965"
LOL, you should have seen the look and the silence everyone suddenly got
sm
member
-History has shown Riots and Civil Disorder to be a problem.
As the "crow flies" I'm subject to :
-William Jefferson *cough* Library scheduled to open.
-Air Force Base
-Nuclear Reactor
-Arsenal ( where some nasty stuff is being destroyed like Mustard gas)
-Major River ( not far from one bridge, any loss of bridges would cause headaches and disorder ... then again I couldn't get to or from campus).
-Some others - just the short version.
So if any Civil Disorder , due to Enemies Foreign or Domestic, we have a choice of prime targets ...gonna screw the pooch, no matter who , what when or where.
Well...I'm gonna play nice and not say anything ugly about the white trash looking bldg scheduled to be a Library that if disappeared would not hurt my...or...nevermind.
Edited to add Tornados...and all that goes with it.
As the "crow flies" I'm subject to :
-William Jefferson *cough* Library scheduled to open.
-Air Force Base
-Nuclear Reactor
-Arsenal ( where some nasty stuff is being destroyed like Mustard gas)
-Major River ( not far from one bridge, any loss of bridges would cause headaches and disorder ... then again I couldn't get to or from campus).
-Some others - just the short version.
So if any Civil Disorder , due to Enemies Foreign or Domestic, we have a choice of prime targets ...gonna screw the pooch, no matter who , what when or where.
Well...I'm gonna play nice and not say anything ugly about the white trash looking bldg scheduled to be a Library that if disappeared would not hurt my...or...nevermind.
Edited to add Tornados...and all that goes with it.
Last edited:
Aikibiker
Member
Hurricanes are always a worry in Florida. That and the attendant looting and social disorder that can follow.
I am not really worried about having to fight my way through the ravening hordes. I am armed and I have quite a few friends that are armed too.
I am more worried about having enough food to eat. I need to restock the freezers clean the gas grill and make sure I store a couple of cans of gasoline for the generator if a hurricane is coming this way.
I am not really worried about having to fight my way through the ravening hordes. I am armed and I have quite a few friends that are armed too.
I am more worried about having enough food to eat. I need to restock the freezers clean the gas grill and make sure I store a couple of cans of gasoline for the generator if a hurricane is coming this way.
7.62FullMetalJacket
Member
No worries in Utah (Southern Utah). All them city slickers are up North
Short term: No Problems, unless the sheep herds run wild
Long term, the issue is Water. If water was no longer available.......I live in a foo-foo estate-like development where everyboday has acreage, but we are on a common water system fed by pumping aquifers. So I am reliant on THEM. I do not like it, Sam, I am. Thinking about moving to a more self-sustaining property where I have my own well with a back-up generator for the well pump. Probably also go solar if I build. Also keep a few head of moo-moos for eatin' should the Albertson's stop making meat.
However, I do travel through Las Vegas into SoCal frequently, and to NoCal. My worst nightmare would a breakdown in civil order while I am "in country." I have sufficient provisions and "tools" to employ survival, escape, and evasion with me at all times. My plan is to una$$ the AO ASAP. That is the main reason I am driving these days (besides TSA).
Short term: No Problems, unless the sheep herds run wild
Long term, the issue is Water. If water was no longer available.......I live in a foo-foo estate-like development where everyboday has acreage, but we are on a common water system fed by pumping aquifers. So I am reliant on THEM. I do not like it, Sam, I am. Thinking about moving to a more self-sustaining property where I have my own well with a back-up generator for the well pump. Probably also go solar if I build. Also keep a few head of moo-moos for eatin' should the Albertson's stop making meat.
However, I do travel through Las Vegas into SoCal frequently, and to NoCal. My worst nightmare would a breakdown in civil order while I am "in country." I have sufficient provisions and "tools" to employ survival, escape, and evasion with me at all times. My plan is to una$$ the AO ASAP. That is the main reason I am driving these days (besides TSA).
atek3
Member
ya, I'm with fjolnirsson on this one. Earthquakes and riots. There's a coin and stamp shop here in berkeley where the owner, this old coot, ALWAYS has a concealed revolver and has used it. I mention him because he's an expert on inflation and more importantly Hyperinflation. His point of view is that the US economy is basically a tinderbox, and just one or two major crises could cause a major conflagration. For example, banking run, currency crises, Fannie May/Freddie Mac collapse, runaway inflation, the popping of the current housing bubble. And when economically speaking SHTF, he thinks a lot of torch wielding oaklanders are going to raise some mighty havok. We get tremors of that every couple years. When, for example, non-UC-berkeley students were turned away from the African American Fraternities Hip-Hop Ball, it turned ugly real fast. All the shops along telegraph had their windows shattered and stuff was stolen. A particularly aggressive group invaded a home and the woman resident locked herself in the bathroom while they ransacked her house. That was one afternoon of 100 angry youths, imagine for a second what 100,000 would do.
atek3
Edited to say: Unfortunately (or fortunately) I'm well known as a crazy gun nut, and so I have a standing invitation to move in (with the guns of course) to my old house if the SHTF.
atek3
Edited to say: Unfortunately (or fortunately) I'm well known as a crazy gun nut, and so I have a standing invitation to move in (with the guns of course) to my old house if the SHTF.
I think most people don't recognize the most common possible emergencies in their area that could pose a large-scale threat. Here's the thing I think people are most likely to overlook in favor of more, umm, interesting emergencies like large riots or an earthquake.
1. Weather related emergencies: Those people in coastal areas are familiar with hurricanes, but bad weather can happen anywhere. Know what's common or possible in your area, and plan accordingly. Where I live, the most common problem is bad winter storms and/or ice storms. Tornados are also a possibility. Any weather emergency can have the added complication of a prolonged power outage.
Here's a question: Do you know the flood plain rating of your community? Even if it hasn't flooded in recent memory, some areas are more susectible than others.
2. Fire related emergencies: Wild fires are possible in some areas and plain old structure fires can happen anywhere. You're much more likely to have a house fire than be the victim of a terrorist attack. Granted, structure fires (except for wild fires) aren't usually a large scale event, but if it happens to YOU, wouldn't you think TSHTF?
3. Industrial accidents: This can include derailed train cars that release chemicals or toxic fumes or fires or explosions at local manufacturing plants that release chemicals or fumes. I'd include nuke plant accidents in this as well, but they are much less likely than a plain old factory fire that requires you to temporarily evacuate the neighborhood.
I live just a few miles from a large auto factory and there are numerous train tracks even closer. I'm very aware of the possibility of some sort of toxic spill. It's happened before in my old neighborhood and could happen here.
If you want to learn more about what possible local disasters could occur in your area, talk to the administration of your local fire department or someone involved in emergency planning at your local hospital. Ask them what they are concerned about most and what incident types they include in their disaster plan.
1. Weather related emergencies: Those people in coastal areas are familiar with hurricanes, but bad weather can happen anywhere. Know what's common or possible in your area, and plan accordingly. Where I live, the most common problem is bad winter storms and/or ice storms. Tornados are also a possibility. Any weather emergency can have the added complication of a prolonged power outage.
Here's a question: Do you know the flood plain rating of your community? Even if it hasn't flooded in recent memory, some areas are more susectible than others.
2. Fire related emergencies: Wild fires are possible in some areas and plain old structure fires can happen anywhere. You're much more likely to have a house fire than be the victim of a terrorist attack. Granted, structure fires (except for wild fires) aren't usually a large scale event, but if it happens to YOU, wouldn't you think TSHTF?
3. Industrial accidents: This can include derailed train cars that release chemicals or toxic fumes or fires or explosions at local manufacturing plants that release chemicals or fumes. I'd include nuke plant accidents in this as well, but they are much less likely than a plain old factory fire that requires you to temporarily evacuate the neighborhood.
I live just a few miles from a large auto factory and there are numerous train tracks even closer. I'm very aware of the possibility of some sort of toxic spill. It's happened before in my old neighborhood and could happen here.
If you want to learn more about what possible local disasters could occur in your area, talk to the administration of your local fire department or someone involved in emergency planning at your local hospital. Ask them what they are concerned about most and what incident types they include in their disaster plan.
With several nuclear power plants all around Austria, and with the east block technology involved, my biggest SHTF concern is a Chernobyl scenario (either accident or terrorist attack). My house is in the "kill zone" of two czech power plants, so I would have to bug out even if I survived the first week bunkered in my cellar.
Best Regards
Cato
Best Regards
Cato
The_Antibubba
Member
Gee, can I limit the list to under 10?
I live in Midtown Sacramento.
1. Attack on the Capitol Building, Courts, etc. And the follow-up security response to any attack might be more dangerous than the attack itself
2. Two blocks from the RR tracks.
3. Race riots.
4. Fire-most of the houses in my neighborhood are wooden Victorians.
5. Earthquakes-less of a concern here than toward the coast, but a quake comes with it's own host of problems, some of them already mentioned.
6. Oh, let's not forget that most of the city is built in a flood plain, at the confluence of two big rivers. And that flood control measures have been rather neglected because of the budget crunch.
My apartment building is in the flood zone, but only to a depth of 8 feet, so I should be OK for a couple days upstairs. Gotta get that inflatable boat, though...
7. JBTs.
I'm not worried about jihading terrorists, though-I'll let SF and LA worry about that.
Gotta buy those five rural acres one of these days...
I live in Midtown Sacramento.
1. Attack on the Capitol Building, Courts, etc. And the follow-up security response to any attack might be more dangerous than the attack itself
2. Two blocks from the RR tracks.
3. Race riots.
4. Fire-most of the houses in my neighborhood are wooden Victorians.
5. Earthquakes-less of a concern here than toward the coast, but a quake comes with it's own host of problems, some of them already mentioned.
6. Oh, let's not forget that most of the city is built in a flood plain, at the confluence of two big rivers. And that flood control measures have been rather neglected because of the budget crunch.
My apartment building is in the flood zone, but only to a depth of 8 feet, so I should be OK for a couple days upstairs. Gotta get that inflatable boat, though...7. JBTs.
I'm not worried about jihading terrorists, though-I'll let SF and LA worry about that.
Gotta buy those five rural acres one of these days...
JamisJockey
member
Given California's history, I'd move that up a notch or two.
In this area im thinking Earthquakes by a REALLY big margin. Although if we ever let a whole bunch of mega-lefty weirdos gather in the same place at the same time again we could get some kind of civil disturbance. That's especially a concern since the police have been largely hamstrung since all that WTO nonesense. Their new policy is to wait for someone to get killed and then try to take pictures and drag out the body later You think im joking don't you?
You think im joking don't you?Smoke
Member
Tornados.
Urban Sprawl.
Smoke
Urban Sprawl.
Smoke
artherd
member
1) Berkley
2) Child molestors/murderers on a spree.
3) Earthquake
4) Roits (of any nature)
5) terrorist attack on SF.
6) National financial collapse
7) Food/gas/power shortage/outage
8) Drug trade, and 'War on Drugs'.
9) No MTV.
10) (only recently moved way down) USSR hitting my computer room in a 'first-strike' attack. And not because I moved the computers either!
2) Child molestors/murderers on a spree.
3) Earthquake
4) Roits (of any nature)
5) terrorist attack on SF.
6) National financial collapse
7) Food/gas/power shortage/outage
8) Drug trade, and 'War on Drugs'.
9) No MTV.
10) (only recently moved way down) USSR hitting my computer room in a 'first-strike' attack. And not because I moved the computers either!
stevelyn
Member
Out here, the major concerns are earthquakes followed by tsunamies and of course, volcanic activity as a cause, contributing to or compounding the problem. Mt. Shishaldin to the west (active), Pavlov to the east (comes and goes), and Dutton (dormant) in my backyard.
armoredman
Member
Worry number one - drug/illegal alien smugglers, being just 83 miles north of the border, and right off the freeway.
Worry number two - derailment of haz-mat train cars - tracks one mile away.
Worry number three - backpack nuke or other WMD detonated in Tucson or Phoenix - will disrupt the hell out of life in surrounding areas...and this leads to...
Worry number four- water - this IS the desert. there is a local pumping station that would run, if need be, but our actual water is city water piped all the way out here - yeah, THAT makes sense! There is the swimming pool, and the gas grill - distilled water may taste bad, but it will keep you alive.
No place to bug out too, damn little equipment.
Owrst case would be IT happeneing while at work in Florence, 60+ miles away. Dept would not let us go home, as we are a component of Homeland Security in the state. Serious. If IT happened at home, I would not be answering the phone/cell phone - just me, the wife and son, two Witnesses, a shotgun and the Mosin against the world.....hmm, gotta upgrade, world's gonna win at this rate.....
Worry number two - derailment of haz-mat train cars - tracks one mile away.
Worry number three - backpack nuke or other WMD detonated in Tucson or Phoenix - will disrupt the hell out of life in surrounding areas...and this leads to...
Worry number four- water - this IS the desert. there is a local pumping station that would run, if need be, but our actual water is city water piped all the way out here - yeah, THAT makes sense! There is the swimming pool, and the gas grill - distilled water may taste bad, but it will keep you alive.
No place to bug out too, damn little equipment.
Owrst case would be IT happeneing while at work in Florence, 60+ miles away. Dept would not let us go home, as we are a component of Homeland Security in the state. Serious. If IT happened at home, I would not be answering the phone/cell phone - just me, the wife and son, two Witnesses, a shotgun and the Mosin against the world.....hmm, gotta upgrade, world's gonna win at this rate.....
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
If I'm at home when the Big Ruckus breaks loose, I'll learn about it from the Internet or the TV. Side effects which could bother me: 1. The electricity goes off, and I'm low on gasoline for my generator. (I usually try to have a hundred gallons or more on hand.) 2. The Budweiser truck doesn't make its deliveries.
Art
TamThompson
Member
An Austin City Council meeting.
Solution: turn off the radio and quit listening.
Seriously,
I noticed that Austin is still on the list of the top 100 American targets for terrorism, based upon the outdated fact that we are still listed as having Bergstrom Air Force base, which we haven't had in about 10 years. Terrorists may act on outdated info.
Other threats to Austin, as I see them in order of priority and likeliness:
1. Imposition of martial law by feds in response to another terrorist attack.
2. Nuke attack on Houston (there have been threats made on oil industry in Texas.)
3. Nuke attack on San Antonio, where there are two army/Air Force bases.
4. Bombing of any or all of the seven or so dams on the Highland Lakes, which would turn the Colorado River into a raging whitewater monster (mmmm...kayaking!!!)
5. Bombing of The University of Texas, the largest university in the country or close to it.
Solution: turn off the radio and quit listening.
Seriously,
I noticed that Austin is still on the list of the top 100 American targets for terrorism, based upon the outdated fact that we are still listed as having Bergstrom Air Force base, which we haven't had in about 10 years. Terrorists may act on outdated info.
Other threats to Austin, as I see them in order of priority and likeliness:
1. Imposition of martial law by feds in response to another terrorist attack.
2. Nuke attack on Houston (there have been threats made on oil industry in Texas.)
3. Nuke attack on San Antonio, where there are two army/Air Force bases.
4. Bombing of any or all of the seven or so dams on the Highland Lakes, which would turn the Colorado River into a raging whitewater monster (mmmm...kayaking!!!)
5. Bombing of The University of Texas, the largest university in the country or close to it.
Moparmike
Member
In no particular order:
New Madrid Fault. Even though I am in NW AR, its effects could be bad all the way out here. This sucker redirected the Mississippi River last time it quaked, and according to various resources its over due. 50% chance of quake by 1995 (oops), 100% by 2040.
Train mishap. I live 2 blocks away from a set of railroad tracks, just down the hill. Bad stuff could happen... Thanks for the heads up armoredman.
Terrorism strikes the University. Well, it could happen. I dunno why with all the liberals. *shrugs*
Terrorism strikes Walmart. Wally World HQ is 40miles up the road. WW has their annual confrence in Bud Walton Arena literally accross the road from where I type this minute. (I live 3mi from it). I heard it was the 3rd most likely target after Sept. 11th. I dont know where I heard it though.
Rain. I never thought I would post that, but after our recent bout with flooding locally (I spent 8mo in Indiana and never saw anything that bad ) where I thought about building an Ark, it could happen. I will likely need an Ark just to travel from hill to hill. Tornadoes can hit the flat parts.
Nuke Plant. I live 100 or so miles from a Nuke plant in Russelville. Hopefully the wind will blow in a non NW direction...
Chicken plants. I dont know what sort of calamity all the chicken plants can cause, but it sure wouldnt be good.
Probably more that I am missing.
New Madrid Fault. Even though I am in NW AR, its effects could be bad all the way out here. This sucker redirected the Mississippi River last time it quaked, and according to various resources its over due. 50% chance of quake by 1995 (oops), 100% by 2040.
Train mishap. I live 2 blocks away from a set of railroad tracks, just down the hill. Bad stuff could happen... Thanks for the heads up armoredman.
Terrorism strikes the University. Well, it could happen. I dunno why with all the liberals. *shrugs*
Terrorism strikes Walmart. Wally World HQ is 40miles up the road. WW has their annual confrence in Bud Walton Arena literally accross the road from where I type this minute. (I live 3mi from it). I heard it was the 3rd most likely target after Sept. 11th. I dont know where I heard it though.
Rain. I never thought I would post that, but after our recent bout with flooding locally (I spent 8mo in Indiana and never saw anything that bad
) where I thought about building an Ark, it could happen. I will likely need an Ark just to travel from hill to hill. Tornadoes can hit the flat parts.Nuke Plant. I live 100 or so miles from a Nuke plant in Russelville. Hopefully the wind will blow in a non NW direction...
Chicken plants. I dont know what sort of calamity all the chicken plants can cause, but it sure wouldnt be good.
Probably more that I am missing.
terrorist attack
No crap at all, 10 DAYS AGO "CAMARADA ARTEMIO" appeared in the media demanding prisioner liberation, and threatened to restart terrorist attacks if not satisfied.
That may sound just like a bluff, but when you have lived in fear for about eight years 1982-1990 when the sound of exploding bombs and no power at all were just normal (we even played a game trying to determine the place of the explosion based on light and sound....I was a small kid at the time (12 years old) and my dad tried to makle that a game so I didn't freak out...) you take that really seriously....
Yes, I fear a terrorist SHTF situation, and not the kind you have had (the world trade center), but selective urban elimination (official term), where this guys just enter a store and shoot everyone, or just set off a bomb car at a very crowded area (the worst of those bombings was in Miraflores -Tarata-, it blew up on a commercial jewelery street, in the most peacefull neigborhood.)
I now carry my Tanfoglio .38 SA, Glock 25, 2 reloadas for each(yes, that is 4 mags =60 shots without counting the ones in the guns) everywhere I go -my friends think I look funny with the BIG jacket I wear even when it's not cool outside...but I'm not going without a fight! And preferably, not going at all!
And even with a direct threat like that one, our autrhorities say "they don´t have the power to initiate aggresion, the fact that they are allied to drug traffic means nothing at all". Now that is a bad a$$ lie!
This are a couple links to what is going on right now:
http://www.elcomercioperu.com.pe/online/html/2004-04-22/onlnacional0128962.html
http://www.bellsouthim.net.pe/article.asp?location=search&newsid=766487
No crap at all, 10 DAYS AGO "CAMARADA ARTEMIO" appeared in the media demanding prisioner liberation, and threatened to restart terrorist attacks if not satisfied.
That may sound just like a bluff, but when you have lived in fear for about eight years 1982-1990 when the sound of exploding bombs and no power at all were just normal (we even played a game trying to determine the place of the explosion based on light and sound....I was a small kid at the time (12 years old) and my dad tried to makle that a game so I didn't freak out...) you take that really seriously....
Yes, I fear a terrorist SHTF situation, and not the kind you have had (the world trade center), but selective urban elimination (official term), where this guys just enter a store and shoot everyone, or just set off a bomb car at a very crowded area (the worst of those bombings was in Miraflores -Tarata-, it blew up on a commercial jewelery street, in the most peacefull neigborhood.)
I now carry my Tanfoglio .38 SA, Glock 25, 2 reloadas for each(yes, that is 4 mags =60 shots without counting the ones in the guns) everywhere I go -my friends think I look funny with the BIG jacket I wear even when it's not cool outside...but I'm not going without a fight! And preferably, not going at all!
And even with a direct threat like that one, our autrhorities say "they don´t have the power to initiate aggresion, the fact that they are allied to drug traffic means nothing at all". Now that is a bad a$$ lie!
This are a couple links to what is going on right now:
http://www.elcomercioperu.com.pe/online/html/2004-04-22/onlnacional0128962.html
http://www.bellsouthim.net.pe/article.asp?location=search&newsid=766487
Rickstir
Member
I work 50 miles from my homestead. Getting home could be a challange in some circumstances.
Race riot - not probable where I work, impossible at home. However in the event of civil unrest the three surrounding blocks at work will have to be traversed and that could be a problem.
My biggest concern at work is an attack on a nuclear facility. The university has one and I am not sure in these days of shrinking budgets in higher ed how much they devote to security. There is a large commerical reactor 50 miles to the southeast, which is downwind of the prevailing winds but who knows? Two targets within 50 miles????
Only cross small streams on the way home and with my 4WD lifted truck I think I could find a place to cross. Only one that I know of would be a challenge, but I have not looked at other routes. Flooding is a potential all though short-lived problem. I'll try another route that is farther to the west and see if it is better.
Race riot - not probable where I work, impossible at home. However in the event of civil unrest the three surrounding blocks at work will have to be traversed and that could be a problem.
My biggest concern at work is an attack on a nuclear facility. The university has one and I am not sure in these days of shrinking budgets in higher ed how much they devote to security. There is a large commerical reactor 50 miles to the southeast, which is downwind of the prevailing winds but who knows? Two targets within 50 miles????
Only cross small streams on the way home and with my 4WD lifted truck I think I could find a place to cross. Only one that I know of would be a challenge, but I have not looked at other routes. Flooding is a potential all though short-lived problem. I'll try another route that is farther to the west and see if it is better.
I live on the Central Coast of California.......
1) Earthquake
2) Wildfire.......(interchangeabale with #1)
3) Nuclear Power plant (Diablo Canyon)-high value terrorist target
4) ICBM from China or Korea???
5) Some disaster in So. Cal causing massive panic and an exodus on 101 which runs right thru my county (could be result of #4)
1) Earthquake
2) Wildfire.......(interchangeabale with #1)
3) Nuclear Power plant (Diablo Canyon)-high value terrorist target
4) ICBM from China or Korea???
5) Some disaster in So. Cal causing massive panic and an exodus on 101 which runs right thru my county (could be result of #4)
Hmmmm
Earthquake is a possibility here (East of Cleveland, OH) and tornadoes seem to pop up anytime, just about year-round. I didn't live in Ohio then, but I remember hearing about Xenia, OH getting pretty darn near wiped off the map about 25 years back.
Next is some sort of attack on the Perry, OH nuke power plant, or the Besse-Davis Nuke plant.
Amphibious sneakers coming across Lake Erie from Canada.
I'm sure there are more, but that is all I can think of right now....
Attack of the Killer Walleye & Pike from lake Erie.
Earthquake is a possibility here (East of Cleveland, OH) and tornadoes seem to pop up anytime, just about year-round. I didn't live in Ohio then, but I remember hearing about Xenia, OH getting pretty darn near wiped off the map about 25 years back.
Next is some sort of attack on the Perry, OH nuke power plant, or the Besse-Davis Nuke plant.
Amphibious sneakers coming across Lake Erie from Canada.
I'm sure there are more, but that is all I can think of right now....
Attack of the Killer Walleye & Pike from lake Erie.
armoredman
Member
http://www.imageseek.com/hakan/ Rogelio - love Tanfoglio. Heres a guy who makes grips - also for Tanfolgio, and here's a custom holster maker I use.. http://www.imageseek.com/hbeleather/ . How does that 25 work - that's the 380 we're not allowed up here, right?
Another SHTF scenario some of my tin foil hat comrades at work are wondering about is this Aztlan garbage, with the dirty UNdies getting involved, trying to force a plebescite on the issue, or putting "peacekeepers" in the area. With Kerry as pres, expect it. Blue Tops make wonderful aiming points....
Another SHTF scenario some of my tin foil hat comrades at work are wondering about is this Aztlan garbage, with the dirty UNdies getting involved, trying to force a plebescite on the issue, or putting "peacekeepers" in the area. With Kerry as pres, expect it. Blue Tops make wonderful aiming points....
This is actually being accomplished politically here in California, with the majority of the state legislature cooperating. Evidence is in white/business flight from this state, sympathy for drivers licenses to illegals, etc. It is an incremental, long term process, and who can say when it has/will succeed?
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