FMJ Self Defense grade Ammo?
- Thread starter Praxidike
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I love the XTP for my uses, however I see tests where Gold dots out perform them and Federal HST outperforming them, giving beautiful expansion...in the calibers I shoot.... Hopefully all these are available in .380, I stick to 9mm (which is usually cheaper than .380 and much easier to reload) and .45. Anyone know if HST is available in .380? I would think with the new Glock and other .380 guns the price would be coming down and choices would increase?
Russellc
Tomac
Member
Sufficient penetration trumps expansion (a well-expanded bullet is worthless if it doesn't penetrate deeply enough to reach the vitals). The .380 isn't powerful enough for both good expansion and sufficient penetration.
In .380 I prefer FMJ or Hornady's Critical Defense which offers sufficient penetration w/modest expansion (although in larger calibers Critical Defense suffers from insufficient penetration).
Tomac
In .380 I prefer FMJ or Hornady's Critical Defense which offers sufficient penetration w/modest expansion (although in larger calibers Critical Defense suffers from insufficient penetration).
Tomac
R.W.Dale
Member
Feeding issues aside, I think a good performing JHP outperforms FMJ in most SD scenarios.
When a JHP fails to expand, it acts like a FMJ anyway, so I don't see the downside of using the better 380 rounds - like Precision One's loading of the Hornady XTP.
JHPs that stop short between 9"-10" are another matter, like Remington "Ultimate" Defense Compact Handgun rounds.
(Spoiler Alert - they failed)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46thZOEDH14
When a JHP fails to expand, it acts like a FMJ anyway, so I don't see the downside of using the better 380 rounds - like Precision One's loading of the Hornady XTP.
JHPs that stop short between 9"-10" are another matter, like Remington "Ultimate" Defense Compact Handgun rounds.
(Spoiler Alert - they failed)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46thZOEDH14
herrwalther
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- 8,127
RussellC said:
No. The best Federal makes for .380 is Hydra-Shok. I doubt they will make HST for .380 as HST is often considered LE grade ammo. Would be nice though.
Why is that? What will Buffalo Bore do that any other fmj won't?
Panzerschwein
member
OP, look for some military surplus .380 marked "Santa Barbara", it's good n' hot and has sealed primers. FMJ surplus.
R.W.Dale
Member
It was CRAZY hot.
I want to say something like 1050 fps if my memory serves.
But again what will another 100 fps make a non expanding bullet do differently?
I haven't seen any Santa Barbara ammo from Spain for probably ten years and when it was available it had very inconsistent velocity, feed problems and was pretty dirty.
Someone at the KT board test some with a chrono and the velocities were all over the place!
Panzerschwein
member
I've heard the .380 Santa Barbara stuff is well though of in the .380 community. It's pretty much the holy grail of FMJ .380 shells.
R.W.Dale
Member
PRM
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Always amazed at the over penetration post??? FBI stats on police involved shootings are pretty consistent with a 2 out of 10 hit ratio under stress. Although, I don't have ant data on civilian shootings, I would not expect them to vary greatly.
So if we shoot 10 rounds, we hit the intended target twice and worry about over penetration. What about the 8 that zipped past...
So if we shoot 10 rounds, we hit the intended target twice and worry about over penetration. What about the 8 that zipped past...
R.W.Dale
Member
Can you give us an example of that? I shot a thousand rounds of it when it was available and it was crap.
rskent
Member
R.W.Dale asked:
In the guns that I use them in they feed well and are accurate. I use them in my P238 and my G36.
In the guns that I use them in they feed well and are accurate. I use them in my P238 and my G36.
Tomac
Member
http://http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2013/04/380-auto-fmj-heavy-clothing-terminal.html
http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2013/04/380-auto-fmj-heavy-clothing-terminal.html
That is an excellent site and if you go to this page of the tests you see exactly why I carry WWB fmj/TC ammo in my 380 pistols and also why it's a waste of money to use the much more expensive FMJ premium brands in 380.
http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2013/04/380-auto-fmj-heavy-clothing-terminal.html
kBob
Member
PRM and quoters.
Back when the Uniform Crime report listed such in the 70's and '80s the numbers indicated that civilians fired half as many shots in an engagement as police and were about three times as accurate as police.
One of the issues with issuing semi auto hi caps to police was that initially their already high number of rounds per engagement actually di go up in reporting and percentage of hits went down.
Fortunately firearms training seems to be becoming more important to law enforcement, individual officers included.
Back in the 90's it amazed me that LEO candidates at the local academy that took our club NRA courses that featured only 3 hours of range time and not more than 100 rounds ALWAYS scored in the tops in their classes despite having a good deal more training at the academy. Made me wonder what they were teaching folks at the state school that three hours with other non paid civilians ( US police are by definition civilians despite them calling the rest of the populace that) made that much difference.......
-kBob
Back when the Uniform Crime report listed such in the 70's and '80s the numbers indicated that civilians fired half as many shots in an engagement as police and were about three times as accurate as police.
One of the issues with issuing semi auto hi caps to police was that initially their already high number of rounds per engagement actually di go up in reporting and percentage of hits went down.
Fortunately firearms training seems to be becoming more important to law enforcement, individual officers included.
Back in the 90's it amazed me that LEO candidates at the local academy that took our club NRA courses that featured only 3 hours of range time and not more than 100 rounds ALWAYS scored in the tops in their classes despite having a good deal more training at the academy. Made me wonder what they were teaching folks at the state school that three hours with other non paid civilians ( US police are by definition civilians despite them calling the rest of the populace that) made that much difference.......
-kBob
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