Kynoch
member
I suspect it's all of those plus ignorance. A few months after Sandy Hook, some were posting photos of their ammo hoards as if they were their children or grandchildren. Sorta sad to be honest.
.22lr MEGATHREAD
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I suspect it's all of those plus ignorance. A few months after Sandy Hook, some were posting photos of their ammo hoards as if they were their children or grandchildren. Sorta sad to be honest.
Kynoch
member
The margin/cartridge is low. I'm not at all sure the margin/brick is low.
They've had nearly two years. I suspect they are loathe to spend the money because .22 ammo is largely being hoarded and not expended. When the "shortage" ends, there is going to be a terrific amount of .22 ammo to burn through and price/demand for new production simply won't be there.
If they could be certain the demand would continue, you can bet they would be setting up new manufacturing processes.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
You know, this whole issue with questioning anybody else about how much ammo they have and whether or not they need it is beyond silly...it's down right stomach churning.
Who am I, or anyone else, to tell somebody how much ammo they can or cannot have? Who am I, or anyone else, to tell somebody else whether or not they have any business having X amount of ammo?
Come on, folks. There was a time when 10,000 rounds would have lasted me 10 to 15 weeks. And who cares WHY it only lasted me that long? It was my decision to buy and use that amount in that time frame. Nowadays that same amount would last me a LOT longer.
Let's stick to the positive aspects of this string...like keeping each other informed about availability and prices, the latest news, and other constructive information. If someone finds a good deal and buys what he can...great! If someone is in dire need and one of us is close enough to lend a hand...great!
Otherwise keep the other stuff to a minimum.
Who am I, or anyone else, to tell somebody how much ammo they can or cannot have? Who am I, or anyone else, to tell somebody else whether or not they have any business having X amount of ammo?
Come on, folks. There was a time when 10,000 rounds would have lasted me 10 to 15 weeks. And who cares WHY it only lasted me that long? It was my decision to buy and use that amount in that time frame. Nowadays that same amount would last me a LOT longer.
Let's stick to the positive aspects of this string...like keeping each other informed about availability and prices, the latest news, and other constructive information. If someone finds a good deal and buys what he can...great! If someone is in dire need and one of us is close enough to lend a hand...great!
Otherwise keep the other stuff to a minimum.
Easy chief. I was just asking. Not saying one should or shouldn't have it. Just trying to understand it. I like shooting as much as the next guy. Sometimes the way it sounds in posts, I'm just trying to find out if it's ligit for use or just for winning a pissing contest.
After having no luck at WM. I popped into a Big 5 today.
They told me that they get a delivery every Monday morning but one would need to be there at opening time.
When I asked about pricing they said that they only put a small markup on, selling 500 bricks for around $50. Assuming they are paying the same as before the shortage, at 10c per round before tax, I certainly don't classify this as a small markup.
I will leave this ammo to those folks who do currently own a .22. Still about 2 weeks till I can collect my first .22 so no hurry to pay more than is necessary for ammo right now.
They told me that they get a delivery every Monday morning but one would need to be there at opening time.
When I asked about pricing they said that they only put a small markup on, selling 500 bricks for around $50. Assuming they are paying the same as before the shortage, at 10c per round before tax, I certainly don't classify this as a small markup.
I will leave this ammo to those folks who do currently own a .22. Still about 2 weeks till I can collect my first .22 so no hurry to pay more than is necessary for ammo right now.
Yeah...unless you are in a serious pinch and need it right away for something scheduled (a class, range time with a youth, match, etc) do not pay $50 for a brick of bulk type/quality ammo.
I realize I'm in a different position than most, but we burned through 20K+ .22 last year. A lot of that went to the shows, but my Sweetie and I were shooting NSSF Rimfire Challenge pretty seriously. In her training for an Appleseed weekend, we shot maybe 2K .22.
The reason I have the ammo is I HOARDED it! When .22 was readily available, I bought in 5K lot. I watched all the fliers for deals -- Midway USA especially used .22s as a "loss leader." I recall 5K Federal for something like $180. When cheap bulk .22 was around, I bought enough that I could help out my friends. Some of the ammo I'm planning on shooting this afternoon is easily 10 years old.
I've said this before, but it bears saying again…a HOARDER is someone who was smarter than you, put their money were their mouths were and are out shooting while you're still on the Internet bitching about not being able to buy 50 rounds at a time at WallyWorld on the way to the range. Put away when times are good so you'll have when times turn bad.
If you're not familiar with this concept, I recommend Aesop's Fables, specifically the Parable of the Grasshopper and the Ant.
Regarding those endlessly reviled "speculators," there's a word for buying a commodity at a low price and selling it for a profit — "capitalism."
The answer to the question of why would a person have 10K of .22 is because he can. Welcome to America!
Michael B
The reason I have the ammo is I HOARDED it! When .22 was readily available, I bought in 5K lot. I watched all the fliers for deals -- Midway USA especially used .22s as a "loss leader." I recall 5K Federal for something like $180. When cheap bulk .22 was around, I bought enough that I could help out my friends. Some of the ammo I'm planning on shooting this afternoon is easily 10 years old.
I've said this before, but it bears saying again…a HOARDER is someone who was smarter than you, put their money were their mouths were and are out shooting while you're still on the Internet bitching about not being able to buy 50 rounds at a time at WallyWorld on the way to the range. Put away when times are good so you'll have when times turn bad.
If you're not familiar with this concept, I recommend Aesop's Fables, specifically the Parable of the Grasshopper and the Ant.
Regarding those endlessly reviled "speculators," there's a word for buying a commodity at a low price and selling it for a profit — "capitalism."
The answer to the question of why would a person have 10K of .22 is because he can. Welcome to America!
Michael B
jcwit
member
I fully understand where you are coming from.
But this does not hold true for the kids at Scout or 4 H camp & programs.
Or those who have just taken up the sport.
Wanderling
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The way capitalism works in theory, longtime demand should create increase in supply.
Either the theory is wrong, or the forces of capitalism have nothing to do with current .22LR situation, implying the shortages are artificial.
Either the theory is wrong, or the forces of capitalism have nothing to do with current .22LR situation, implying the shortages are artificial.
Vern Humphrey
Member
No, capitalism is working exactly like it always works -- producing an economy that is the sum total of many individual and corporate decisions.
People WANT .22 ammo, and the demand exceeds the supply, so the price goes up. Suppliers then have to factor in set up costs and attempt to predict how long buyers will be willing to pay high prices to determine if they will profit by expanding production or not.
The general consensus in the industry is that the high prices will not persist long enough to recoup to set up costs for increased production.
BigCheeseStick
Member
If the supply weren't being regulated... The increase in demand is so high the product is considered to be completely unavailable. And has been this way for YEARS already. So much so I know several people who refuse to add rimfire firearms to their collections because the unavailability of the ammo.
Speaking as someone who's been in manufacturing of nearly every type in this country for the last 15 years, including equipment sales and development... NO manufacturing equipment in the world is near that cost prohibitive. Add to this the fact that there are dozens of other countries that would LOVE to supply this demand to help their own floundering economies, and yet we see NOTHING from them... Then consider that mass media hasn't touched the subject of such a shortage with a ten foot pole.
I can only ask what brand the rose colored glasses are of anyone who thinks for a passing second this isn't the work of our own beloved government. Yes, the very same one that last year closed national parks at a higher cost than was needed to leave them open because they were "out of money", "Can't afford" to protect our own borders, then quickly sends BILLIONS ON TOP OF BILLIONS in aid to every foreign body with a hand out. :/. Tell me more how this is ANYTHING BUT government arms control.
Speaking as someone who's been in manufacturing of nearly every type in this country for the last 15 years, including equipment sales and development... NO manufacturing equipment in the world is near that cost prohibitive. Add to this the fact that there are dozens of other countries that would LOVE to supply this demand to help their own floundering economies, and yet we see NOTHING from them... Then consider that mass media hasn't touched the subject of such a shortage with a ten foot pole.
I can only ask what brand the rose colored glasses are of anyone who thinks for a passing second this isn't the work of our own beloved government. Yes, the very same one that last year closed national parks at a higher cost than was needed to leave them open because they were "out of money", "Can't afford" to protect our own borders, then quickly sends BILLIONS ON TOP OF BILLIONS in aid to every foreign body with a hand out. :/. Tell me more how this is ANYTHING BUT government arms control.
But it is available.
The panic/situation started about 22 months ago.
The equipment for .22lr production is very expensive and intensive.
We see plenty of .22lr, and other ammo, from the other countries who produce such ammo.
The media never gets into this kind of thing.
It's called demand.
jcwit
member
If in fact that were the case, the shelves of every big box store in the U.S. would be full of .22's. Wal-Mart encl.
Wanderling
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With all due respect, I bought my son a .22LR rifle, along with a brick of ammo, in the end of 2011.
That's the last time I saw ammo on the shelves at less than 2x the usual price.
That's 3 years ago and not a temporary shortage to me.
Why don't you start by listing the countries that produce and export .22lr and their respective brands
For what it's worth: I attended a big gun show today in Kansas. Quite a few tables had .22LR in various quantity, nobody had large amounts of it. Average price was .10/round, $50 for 500. Did not buy at that price but I did buy a very clean S&W 6" Model 17. A friend who is a dealer told me at the show that .22LR is coming into his shop in gradually increasing quantity.
Vern Humphrey
Member
For what it's worth, I bought a case of Sellier & Bellot from Palmetto Armory a couple of months back. A friend went out and ordered another case.
It's there, you just have to look for it.
It's there, you just have to look for it.
It is, if you are vigilant and internet savvy.
I have purchased at least 5,925 rounds of .22lr in the last 4-5 weeks, and I don't think I overpaid for any of it (CCI SV, CCI MM, CCI Blazer, Fed AM, SK Std+, SK Rifle Match; from Walmart, Cabela's, Midway, Grafs)
At least one major retailer is hoarding hundreds of millions of rounds of .22lr in its warehouses, withholding it from most of the country so it can be diverted to new retail store openings. As for the gougers, they were out in force at a recent store opening trying everything they could to purchase more than their 2,800 round limit. The same ammo is now posted on the local classifieds at twice what they paid for it.
I don't mean to rob you of your title, but I don't think you qualify as a hoader. Your private arsenal is a reflection of the rate of which you burn through it. Pretty big difference between that and just sitting on it. Don't know why you take such offense to the question so much so that you turn to insults. I would assume that if you were so much smarter then you would have easily picked up on these differences realizing that you were not included in these groupings surrounding these latest events, and not the years prior.
Lets not play pretent with what capatolism is. With capatolism if there is a need for a good or service, a producer may come in and fill that good or service provided it will be worth their time. A scalper does not quite fit in to this arena. The scalper does not produce the good or service, but instead creates a demand by buying all of the RETAIL products and scalping them at a fixed price based on the demand he has created by depleating the retailers stock. Buying from a retail outlet for the purpose of another markup and resale is not capitolism. Creating the demand for the service you provide is not capitolism. It's a perversion of it.
Do you have a citation or some kind of proof for this?
The free market at work, isn't it great?
You should take your rage to the retailer and tell them how they are only charging about half what they should be.
You have seen hundreds of millions of rounds of .22lr sitting idly being 'hoarded' in warehouses?
When, where, what ammo, and how much?
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