New Browning 1911-380 to be announced tomorrow.

The Llama in #17 is a later model with the vent rib and thumb rest grips needed to gain import "points". The pre-war Llama .380 was a nearly perfect scaled down copy of the M1911A1; in a picture without a scale, it is a bit hard to tell the Llama from the full size gun.

Jim

In 1975 I brought home a nice little Star "1911" in .380 from overseas.
Wish I still had it.

All steel, as I recall, no real recoil.
A reduced-size 1911 .380 is not such a bad idea.
It'll sell to some, it won't to some, and life goes on.
Denis

Jim K said:

The Llama in #17 is a later model with the vent rib and thumb rest grips needed to gain import "points". The pre-war Llama .380 was a nearly perfect scaled down copy of the M1911A1; in a picture without a scale, it is a bit hard to tell the Llama from the full size gun.

Jim

Click to expand...

Yes, mine is the IIIa, series 4 blowback model and as near as I can tell, it was made around 1980-81. Here is a pic of the Llama Model III locked breech .380 which you are referring to.

I think it's a very interesting little pistol but it does seem like a niche product. Browning is making a solid effort to market the 1911-380 as a Goldie Locks combination of size, concealability and shootability. They may very well be right.

However, casual shooters may still be uncomfortable with a single action carry pistol and most 1911 enthusiasts would probably prefer to carry the full size version. On the other hand, the handling qualities will probably be great and novice shooters may actually appreciate the external safety (which guns like my LCP don't).

I wish Browning success with the design.

I don't see why anyone would want this. It's the perfect mix of all the attributes I don't want in a carry gun.

Photos and video on the Browning web sight today. Looks kind of large to me.

I recall several "Hmmm, be nice if they'd do that in a .380" comments when the .22 1911 Browning came out.

We'll see.
Denis

I'll be taking a closer look at one. Maybe my wife can have her 230SL back. I'm looking forward to seeing them side by side.

One killer for me will be if I'm not confident in carrying it with a round in the chamber.

If it has the same sights as the 1911-22, then its a fail for me. I really wanted the 1911-22 until I handled one. The sights are terrible. The front sight fills the gap in the rear, and you cant make out any diference between the front, and rear. You simply see one black blob. FAIL

weblance said:

If it has the same sights as the 1911-22, then its a fail for me. I really wanted the 1911-22 until I handled one. The sights are terrible. The front sight fills the gap in the rear, and you cant make out any diference between the front, and rear. You simply see one black blob. FAIL

Click to expand...

Looks like it's got little 85%-scale Novak-type sights on it. That and the use of the locked breach indicate that Browning is really making an effort to have the 1911-380 be as useful as possible. How useful that actually is is another question.

Getting novice users to trust condition 1 carry will be a challenge and more experienced shooters will probably gravitate toward other pistols. I still think that, like the Mustang or the old Government 380, this thing would make a good carry gun, but both of those designs come from a time when there weren't many other small, safe and reliable semi-autos for carry.

Made in USA, by who?

Have not confirmed with Browning, but I'd assume made in the same plant in SLC by the same company that builds Buckmarks & the .22 1911s for Browning.
Denis

The Browning .380 1911 is a well designed weapon. Mr. Browning
designed the pistol and the cartridge. Most of the comments are
without merit, as you do not know crap about weapons. Learn how to
shoot and any weapon you carry will be sufficient.

Carrying condition one is a matter of experience. If you are worried about that method of carry, you should not be carrying.

I am not super excited about a scaled down, plastic framed 1911 in .380.

Seeing the photos, I'm more convinced than ever it should have been done in 9mm instead. Ammo is cheaper, more available, & more powerful.

But it should be a very soft shooting .380, which to me means niche product -- people with hand problems that find even a full sized 9mm uncomfortable might love it as significantly more gun than a .22lr. Although .32ACP is a tough sell in the US, this might have been a better choice if this is the real niche its targeting.

The little SIGs, and Colts, for that matter, have hinged triggers, rather than the famous sliding trigger of the 1911.

Click to expand...

True enough but they are short and crisp enough to blow away the triggers on any other small .380, and most full size non-1911 pistols. Its a trigger design I'd love to see on more guns, but in general the masses have been scared aways from single action pistols and external safeties.

.380 has been promoted heavily by gun magazine writers for the women shooters. Sad but true. The caliber is a money maker for many ammo makers as more small guns are designed for this caliber.

From what I saw it will be around $700 list.
I cannot imagine this pistol filling any role except range duty. The 380 Auto can be a viable defensive round with the right bullet.
If I were to carry a .380 Auto for defense it would be much smaller than this and if I were to carry a gun this size it would not be in .380 Auto.
It is not for me.

Dimensionally, the .380ACP is a scaled down .45ACP. Scale is about 77%, which is about the same scale as the Llama III and Browning 1911-380.The scale may be the same but I haven't verified the dimensions of the guns.

1911-22,
The fact that "Mr. Browning" designed the original full-sized 1911 & helped with development of the .380 ACP has nothing to do with the quality or utility of the new Browning .380 at all.

The new pistol is just that- a new pistol.
It's BASED on the classic 1911, but it remains to be seen how the company that's making it pulls it off in terms of materials and overall quality.

Mr. Browning did NOT design the new .380, and there's no automatic correlation between the fact that he designed the original 1911 and any quality or function level on the new Browning.

I do agree that it's a wait & see.
(And the above comes from somebody who DOES know "crap" about weapons.)
Denis

I like it. But I'd rather see somebody making a Pocket Hammerless .380 clone.

DPris said:

1911-22,
The fact that "Mr. Browning" designed the original full-sized 1911 & helped with development of the .380 ACP has nothing to do with the quality or utility of the new Browning .380 at all.

The new pistol is just that- a new pistol.
It's BASED on the classic 1911, but it remains to be seen how the company that's making it pulls it off in terms of materials and overall quality.

Mr. Browning did NOT design the new .380, and there's no automatic correlation between the fact that he designed the original 1911 and any quality or function level on the new Browning.

I do agree that it's a wait & see.
(And the above comes from somebody who DOES know "crap" about weapons.)
Denis

Click to expand...

Actually from what I read, JMB best and crowning design was the 1903 .32 ACP vest pocket pistol. The 1911 was just an up sizing from that design that included US Military requests of safety add on items.

I see no need for a 700 dollar 380 pistol with 9 rounds. It appears that manufacturers are just throwing things against the wall to see which one sticks. If they wanted to go that route, fill up a hi-cap mag with 17 rounds, otherwise it serves no purpose.

I wonder how the Browning 1911-380 will compare to the Rock Island Armory A380 Baby Rock? Here is a link that has a quick preview of the RIA A380.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/video/first-look-rock-island-armory-a380-baby-rock/