380 vs. 9mm compact (not pocket)

If you must choose between Hi-Point models, get the C9. It is ugly, crude, and has a terrible trigger. The C9s I that I have had in the past were very reliable.

The Hi-Point .380 is also ugly, crude and has a terrible trigger. But, it lacks the attributes that the 9mm cartridge has.

No doubt . . . get the C9!

To lighten the mood a bit the following quotes are from two different posters on this thread and taken completely out of context; hopefully for your enjoyment

Guess it's all a mater of choice. Some guys go for redheads and some guys go for blonds.

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So pick whichever one seems handiest for you to lug around.

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I'm pretty sure the .380 and 9mm are both built on the same frame, use the same slides, just use slightly different internals and different barrels. That said, they are massive, despite being touted as 'compact' guns. The .380 has a polished stripe on the slide, though, so its cosmetically somewhat different.

Because its not a compact gun in any respect (aside from Hi Point marketing) the .380 makes no sense. I cant think of another modern full size .380 pistol with limited ammo capacity. The compact and subcompact market is what gave the modern .380 its real niche. Now that 9mm guns have caught up with the .380 compacts in relative size, the .380 seems even less viable.

Not bashing Hi Points, I've owned a couple and they are decent guns for not a lot of cash. For a house gun, I miss my .45.

Anyway, if faced with the budget that would limit me to a 'compact' Hi Point, I'd get the one that would be more effective and cost less to practice with, which is the 9mm.

I think it boils down to personal preference. As for those that say the .380 is not an adequate SD caliber, many have been shot with a .380, but I have never heard of one that argued that they were less dead because of it or that they would like to be shot again.

Permit me to reiterate a fact. .380 is a 9mm short and the 9x17 travels at 1,000 feet per second. The 9x19 Luger only travels about 150 feet per second faster and that is irrelevant at self defense range. The 9x17 mm short, Corto, Kurz, .380 is very lethal and has filled many a grave in Europe during past conflicts.

This knowledge is well documented through the years and very accessible for those that like to read. It was substantial enough for me to form an opinion about the round and to buy .380 caliber firearms for self defense plus I have personally seen what a .380 machine pistol can do and why it is a part of our military arsenal.

This again is just my opinion and take it for what it is worth if you want too! I would not want to get hit with a .380 round. I am no ballistics expert but I have seen with my own eyes that a .380 is lethal.

agent109 said:

Permit me to reiterate a fact. .380 is a 9mm short and the 9x17 travels at 1,000 feet per second. The 9x19 Luger only travels about 150 feet per second faster and that is irrelevant at self defense range. The 9x17 mm short, Corto, Kurz, .380 is very lethal and has filled many a grave in Europe during past conflicts.

This knowledge is well documented through the years and very accessible for those that like to read. It was substantial enough for me to form an opinion about the round and to buy .380 caliber firearms for self defense plus I have personally seen what a .380 machine pistol can do and why it is a part of our military arsenal.

This again is just my opinion and take it for what it is worth if you want too! I would not want to get hit with a .380 round. I am no ballistics expert but I have seen with my own eyes that a .380 is lethal.

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I pretty much only carry 380 anymore, but I have to disagree that 9X19 only exceeds 380 velocity by 150fps.

Some years back I chrono'd a Hirtenberger 100gr +p+ soft point from my Kahr K9 at well over 1500fps which is probably 500fps faster than a 380 round.

I would not worry about the pressure, but WOULD WORRY ABOUT THE RECOIL!

I had a KAHR CW9 and found the recoil excessive. I could shoot it, but did not enjoy it. In the end, I sold the pistol. I ended up with a GLOCK 42 in .380ACP after going through a number of pistols. The .32ACP WALTHER PPK was controllable with moderate recoil that made it a fast and accurate shooter for me and was still very compact.
I also had a really nice WALTHER PP in .32ACP, but it actually FELT HARDER in recoil. I blame this on the squared off grips of the WALTHER pistols which exaggerates the feel of the recoil impulse.

I also tried the SIG 232 in .380ACP which was better than the WALTHER in every area but size, it was just too bulky for my needs. Because of the aluminum frames, they weighed about the same.

The 9m.m. is not a heavy recoiling round, but if the gun is small enough, you will feel it. I also tried the S&W Shield and like the KAHR, I did not want to shoot it again.
I also shot the RUGER LC9 and gave up after two magazines, usually I will go at least a 50round box.

I know that perceived recoil is different for each person. I recommend you rent each gun and try at least 1 box of ammo before you buy.

Good luck,

Jim

I am confused by your statement. The 9x19 round IS a high pressure round. My experience has found the Kahr CM 9 to be the most pleasant to shoot of all the 9x19 pocket rockets. That was a deciding factor for me to purchase the gun.

In a .380, I also went with Kahr CW 380. They have real sights, they lock back on the last round, best trigger and I feel they are much better made than the LCP, P3AT, Taurus etc. I feel the patented rotating cam action striker release and feed ramp is far superior to all other designs. This again is just my opinion and where I spent my money on guns I totally trust my life to.

kokapelli said:

I pretty much only carry 380 anymore, but I have to disagree that 9X19 only exceeds 380 velocity by 150fps.

Some years back I chrono'd a Hirtenberger 100gr +p+ soft point from my Kahr K9 at well over 1500fps which is probably 500fps faster than a 380 round.

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Kinda proves my point about .380 rounds. I never had a bad guy ask me what the round he got hit with chronograph-ed at either.

agent109 said:

I am confused by your statement. The 9x19 round IS a high pressure round. My experience has found the Kahr CM 9 to be the most pleasant to shoot of all the 9x19 pocket rockets. That was a deciding factor for me to purchase the gun.

In a .380, I also went with Kahr CW 380. They have real sights, they lock back on the last round, best trigger and I feel they are much better made than the LCP, P3AT, Taurus etc. I feel the patented rotating cam action striker release and feed ramp is far superior to all other designs. This again is just my opinion and where I spent my money on guns I totally trust my life to.

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I always liked the Kahr trigger, but far superior than all the others? PersonallyI would take a TCP any day over the P380 and the P238 just leaves the P380 in the dust and the G42 though a little larger also leaves the P380 in the dust.

agent109 said:

Kinda proves my point about .380 rounds. I never had a bad guy ask me what the round he got hit with chronograph-ed at either.

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How does what I said prove your point?

IMHO, .380 is overpriced & underpowered. You can get decent 9mm Fed Aluminum Case ammo for under $10 bucks a box & .380 is twice that price. And if 9mm recoil bothers you, just keep training until it doesn't bother you anymore!

JDR said:

IMHO, .380 is overpriced & underpowered. You can get decent 9mm Fed Aluminum Case ammo for under $10 bucks a box & .380 is twice that price. And if 9mm recoil bothers you, just keep training until it doesn't bother you anymore!

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380 ammo is more expensive, but not twice the price! for example this...http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/2777/category/84/

Or This...http://www.selwayarmory.com/northernhillsprecision380acp100grfmj-remanufactured-boxof100.aspx

Do you think that if I keep training it will make my 82 year old arthritic joints not bother me anymore?

I've owed both 380 and 9mm and I would prefer the 9mm for sure.

kokapelli said:

380 ammo is more expensive, but not twice the price! for example this...http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/2777/category/84/

Or This...http://www.selwayarmory.com/northernhillsprecision380acp100grfmj-remanufactured-boxof100.aspx

Do you think that if I keep training it will make my 82 year old arthritic joints not bother me anymore?

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Doubtful at best, but never the less amusing to read. 82 wow, keep up what you are doing it seems to be working out for you. I hope I make 82! I was never one to partake in self adulation but that achievement deserves recognition.

I don't shoot my guns more than twice a year to qualify and by the virtue of the fact that I am still here and writing this makes it self evident that my regiment is successful. My guns are tools and I don't swoon over them or admire them. They are to defend my life and shooting holes in paper on a regular basis is useless and expensive in my opinion. I only need them to work when called on to do so. So far Glock and Kahr designs have proven their viability as life savers. I see no need to deviate from success now.

agent109 said:

Doubtful at best, but never the less amusing to read. 82 wow, keep up what you are doing it seems to be working out for you. I hope I make 82! I was never one to partake in self adulation but that achievement deserves recognition.

I don't shoot my guns more than twice a year to qualify and by the virtue of the fact that I am still here and writing this makes it self evident that my regiment is successful. My guns are tools and I don't swoon over them or admire them. They are to defend my life and shooting holes in paper on a regular basis is useless and expensive in my opinion. I only need them to work when called on to do so. So far Glock and Kahr designs have proven their viability as life savers. I see no need to deviate from success now.

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Who is your post referring to and what is your reference to shooting paper targets in response to?

I'm completely lost in your opinions and why or to who you are referencing them, or what they are in reference to!

My guns are tools and I don't swoon over them or admire them.

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That is why I like Glocks - they're like shovels. No one worries if the paint on the spade of their shovel starts to wear.

On the other hand I love my HK P7M8, I really admire it and I wish I had purchased 5 of them - one to keep in a glass display case so I could admire its beauty.

I also spend a lot of time fawning over my S&W 929 - my dream gun, the gun I thought would never be, in my loving arms at last.

I am a shameless swooner. I admit it, I love pretty guns. I don't buy them exclusively, I have GLOCKs too. But yes, I swoon.

This really isn't about the merits of .380 v. 9mm, which has been debated ad nauseum.

Nor is it about which gun is best suited for the two rounds.

We are talking about a Hi Point .380 and a Hi Point 9mm. The guns weigh the same, for all practical purposes, and I believe the compact mags each hold the same number of rounds.

The OP is limited, for one reason or another that's not being discussed, to one of those two pistols. Recoil in a boat anchor heavy Hi Point is negligible with either caliber. The straight blowback action could possibly suit the .380 better, but since it weighs as much as an African elephant, it's a moot point.

Direct from the Hi Point website
9mm
8 and 10 round mags.
Bbl :3.5"
OAL:6.75"
Weight: 29oz.

.380
8 and 10 round mags
Bbl:3.5"
OAL:6.75"
Weight: 29oz.

So, as the guns are identical, it would make the most sense to get what's more affordable in the long run. Spare mags are the same price, so it really boils down to ammo cost. 9mm is cheaper.