120 years of Browning designs

Beautiful collection! You sir have an admirable goal! That FN Model 1900 is so odd looking its cool!

I do believe that the Browning Hi Power design was finalized and released way after his death on November 26, 1926.

Interesting indeed! The mystery that has caught my attention is why did he go to the 9x19 cartridge after such success with the larger caliber .45.

agent109 said:

I do believe that the Browning Hi Power design was finalized and released way after his death on November 26, 1926.

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I agree, but to paraphrase a recent barnbwt comment; Saive got a lot of help from Browning before Saive picked up Browning’s design and redesigned it into the P-35 we know today. If you look at the state of development of the pistol Browning created it looks like the ugly aunt of the P-35 not its beautiful mother. Depending on who I have read comments from the amount of Browning in the Browning P-35 ranges from 40% to 60%. It is one of those “Is the glass half-full or half-empty?” situations. I consider it more Saive than Browning. Regardless of how you decide who deserves the lion’s share of the credit for designing the P-35 it was produced by FN and is universally known as the Browning High Power.

agent109 said:

Interesting indeed! The mystery that has caught my attention is why did he go to the 9x19 cartridge after such success with the larger caliber .45.

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Because it was designed for the European market and more specifically with hope of sales in the European military market. The Browning design was resurrected by Saive to win a French military contract. Ultimately everything done to make the sale to the French was futile because the French went with their own MAS1935 design in 7.65mm.

I never understood the allure of Browning's designs. The revolving cylinder repeating rifle was crude and primitive in my opinion. The split feed ramp on the 1911 seems to remain problematic with anything other than round ball ammo that was designed to feed it.

Don't get me wrong I have a matched pair, consecutive serial numbered 1911 pistols by United Switch and Signal unfired, that are stored away in a safety deposit box and I am really thankful for the allure of others that have brought them to a worth around 70 grand for a two hundred dollar investment. This is my grand daughters college tuition fund chest.

I have a Rock Island clone that I paid $279 bucks for and it fills my needs if I want to shoot a .45 caliber handgun.

I feel Colt and Stoner and Makarov and Kalashnikov and Glock are far better gun designers but that is just a person preference for me. I don't drive a Stanley Steamer either....LOL

The split feed ramp on the 1911 seems to remain problematic with anything other than round ball ammo that was designed to feed it.

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I can disprove that myth with any of several unaltered, original/correct USGI pistols in my possession with manufacture dates ranging from 1913-1945...and with examples from four of the five WW2 contractors.

They can't seem to tell the difference between hardball and hollowpoint and even cast lead 200-grain SWCs.

And they'll do it from the original "Hardball" magazines.

The only hollowpoint that has given trouble in a couple of'em was the old truncated cone Hydra Shok.

agent109 said:

I feel Colt and Stoner and Makarov and Kalashnikov and Glock are far better gun designers but that is just a person preference for me. I don't drive a Stanley Steamer either....LOL

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I think you will find your opinion is a minority opinion and that most people would consider Stoner, Makarov, Kalashnikov, and Glock "Nanos gigantum humeris insidentes" compared to Browning. Samuel Colt was more of a firearm marketing genius than a firearm designing genius. Colt designed almost nothing that Colt’s has produced. John Moses Browning was not just a giant he was a Titan. A Titan not fully overthrown by the younger gods you mentioned.

agent109 said:

The split feed ramp on the 1911 seems to remain problematic with anything other than round ball ammo that was designed to feed it.

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This comment indicates you have limited experience shooting 1911 designs. The 185 grain and 200 grain SWC bullets are well known to feed well. The .451 200 grain SWC in 1911s was the dominant bullet/pistol in IPSC many years. Done right a split feed ramp is not a problem.

1911Tuner said:

I can disprove that myth with any of several unaltered, original/correct USGI pistols in my possession with manufacture dates ranging from 1913-1945...and with examples from four of the five WW2 contractors.

They can't seem to tell the difference between hardball and hollowpoint and even cast lead 200-grain SWCs.

And they'll do it from the original "Hardball" magazines.

The only hollowpoint that has given trouble in a couple of'em was the old truncated cone Hydra Shok.

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I have no doubt that you can. I am just not enthused with 1911 style guns. For me it is the .40 S&W round shot out of a Glock that suits me. I feel that is obscene paying thousands of dollars for a 1911 style handgun that the military scrapped as far back as 1950 or there about. I cast no aspersions at the designer or the design. In 1911 it was the cat's pajamas i would wager. This is 2014 and for my money far better designs have come along. Glock does seem to sell a great deal of pistols around the world so I don't think I am the only one with this opinion.

OneSevenDeuce

I like your idea of collecting examples of J.M. Browning's semi-auto pistols and any other said firearms that should come your way. My favorites of his are the M1911, the Hi-Power, and the Model 1910.

I feel Colt and Stoner and Makarov and Kalashnikov and Glock are far better gun designers but that is just a person preference for me. I don't drive a Stanley Steamer either....LOL

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You cannot be serious?

I am, I am...Now I really don't know if 1911's don't like me or I don't like 1911's. I had a Colt Gold Cup at one time that was a problem just looking for a place to happen.

I like guns that you can take out of the box, put bullets in and shoot. I just never had that happen with a 1911 except for a Rock Island clone that Ivan at Rock Island put together for me. I know some of you guys love them.....Okay I am just not one of you. Spending thousands of dollars on a 1911 is not high on my list of priorities. I am a Glock man through and through. Peace!

^ it's absolutely got nothing to do with fanboyism...

Gaston has designed one gun and All his models are variation of that single design. Cut a little here add a little there.... Guess what, even his design is based upon JMB's tilting barrel. Likewise for mr AK, stoner has done a little more but majority was based off one design too

Neat collection!

Agent109 writes: ... 1911 style handgun that the military scrapped as far back as 1950 or there about. I cast no aspersions at the designer or the design. In 1911 it was the cat's pajamas i would wager.

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I don't know what source you get that from. The M1911A1 served as the primary sidearm for the US Armed Forces until the mid 1980s. In fact, variants of them are still serving in limited issue with specialized units.
Yes, it is a century old design -- one that still works today.
If you don't like them, or they don't like you, that's fine. There are other designs out there better suited for some people.

The OPs premise of a "collection" of JM Browning designs shows a narrow slice of the wide breadth and scope of JMB as a firearms designer. Everything from pocket pistols, military service pistols, lever action repeaters, pump shotguns, the first semi auto shotgun, to belt fed machine guns.

tarosean said:

^ it's absolutely got nothing to do with fanboyism...

Gaston has designed one gun and All his models are variation of that single design. Cut a little here add a little there.... Guess what, even his design is based upon JMB's tilting barrel. Likewise for mr AK, stoner has done a little more but majority was based off one design too

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Can't that also be said for every other auto loading designed pistol. Just what is so special about the 1911 other than your opinion? The majority of the Law Enforcement community that relies on their side arms as tools choose Glock. I don't think the tilting barrel is unique to Browning albeit I could be wrong. That's a reminiscent argument of the lawsuit that was brought against Henry Ford because there was claims that the automobile was patented and he would have to pay a royalty for every car he produce. I do believe he won that lawsuit. Samuel Colt was a better American gun designer as far as I am concerned and that design still stands up today more than a century later.

Then we have our military dumping the 1911 in favor of the Beretta non tilting barrel feed style 92FS and England dumping the Browning Hi Powers for the Glock 17. There is just too many loose ends hanging around. In the modern world the 1911 is an antique of which I do not like. You seem to like them, okay I accept that. I think they are junk and ask that you accept my opinion as well.

mstreddy said:

I don't know what source you get that from. The M1911A1 served as the primary sidearm for the US Armed Forces until the mid 1980s. In fact, variants of them are still serving in limited issue with specialized units.
Yes, it is a century old design -- one that still works today.
If you don't like them, or they don't like you, that's fine. There are other designs out there better suited for some people.

The OPs premise of a "collection" of JM Browning designs shows a narrow slice of the wide breadth and scope of JMB as a firearms designer. Everything from pocket pistols, military service pistols, lever action repeaters, pump shotguns, the first semi auto shotgun, to belt fed machine guns.

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Here you go!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_&_Wesson_Model_39


I do believe the Luger knee action auto loader predates the 1911 for a lock breech pistol.

The US Military was hunting for a replacement during WWII after we saw the German designed guns.