SHTF scenario - terrorist snipers

I don't think we will see much in the way of a number of types of terrorist activity, even though there has been evidence of it considered. At least at the moment, terrorism as directed at the US has a goal of attacking the economy and swaying political decision. There are just certain types of attacks that won't wash here, and the folks organizing the bad guys are sophisticated enough to know this. These are crazy SOBs with doctorates, not some illiterate guy from the middle of the desert determining targets.

Attacks, if any, will more than likely be the type that demonstrate that economic and political impact that catch citizens as casualties as a secondary effect of some higher level goal than simple predation of US citizens.

Random sniping, as demonstrated by the DC incident, generates a feeling of being directly attacked. The people don't care why, and will demand that the government go hunt down the attackers. Same would go for the home invasion/massacer scenarios seen in al-qada training tapes. This puts the populace and their government on the same side. At least in the US, that isn't what they want.


Things that interfere with major economic components, have a bodycount, and shut down infrastucture for abnormally long periods of time are the choicest courses of action.

Personally, I think the forest fire thing would be a major target. However, it would be fairly easy to deny them credit and claim it was just old mother nature. Which undermines it's usefulness. (also, even educated foreigners who travel to the US regularly seem to have this huge blindspot where the actual size and composition of the US is concerned. They seem to think it is NYC with the outlying suburbs of LA, chicago, and disney world a quick daytrip away.)

There are a number of things I have thought of, but I don't like talking about them in public forums as I don't want to either give anyone ideas, or have anyone think something was my idea.

... always check six!

I suspect that those two fellows were a test case.

And they were successful.

I fear we're going to see more instances as time passes.

The reason there aren't that many Islamic sniper is that the total number of active agents in the USA is just not known. We really have crappy intelligence. If there were thousands - just using 50 as snipers on one day would paralyze the country.

There was a book on terrorist snipers way before 9/11 that stated that most of them are suicidial. Shoot and scoot are hellish to catch.

Certainly law enforcement did little with the DC snipers for a long long time.

Armed citizens on patrol would just be targets for the competent.

One could outfit a bunch of snipers from WalMart and then in the uproar ban all gun sales in the USA for years.

I'm very pessimistic about our dealing with such tactics.

In Nothern Ireland, the IRA used a Mazda 626 to ambush police and British troops. The DC snipers used similiar tactics. Shooting from the trunk.

IIRC, nine were killed in a period of over five years. I am not sure anyone was ever caught.

"shoot & scoot" is exactly what I envsion - either from a "jihad," or from those that have just had it up to here.

Just give it time.

& again, if there's so much threat of terrorists, why are we not seeing any activity from such?

Sure, we've "got 'em on the run," but don't anybody tell me that there are not persons who are not "on the run" who could be performing activities that would cause this country chaos - they're already here, have the means, opportunity & certainly the logic to do so.

After 911, I suspected that we would see "jihadists" running amock in shoppng malls, with cans of gasoline, torching folks to no end. Didn't happen.

Where are the terrorists? There aren't any here, or we would have seen mass-killings to no end.

I could do so myself - if I had the inclination, desire, or no morals to preclude such acts - just as many of you could do.

This country could be brought to its knees with as little as 10-20 people just deciding what would "work best," & acting on it accordingly.

& again, a "sniper-type," changing rifles/calibers would indicate a very "diverse community" which would be extremely difficult to ever pin down. No evidence - other than bullet fragments left in the targets - & how many Speer/Hornady/Sierra, etc. bullets are sold every year? & to whom?

If I was to make an educated guess, our "terrorist snipers" will be those who have become so disgusted with our country's turn of events/the politics enjoned by both parties, that some will finally "turn theh corner" & just start shooting rouge-cops & politicians.

But that's just me.

Again - as a disclaimer - I have no desire to, have any plans to, or will do so. Just my background as an anti-terrorist/hostage rescue-type of guy makes me wonder & consider alternatives .....

labgrade - As I posted earlier, I think that the true "terror" would be generated not from disgusted citizens against particular targets, but rather by making the targets appear random.

From what I can gather, the concepts associated with "sniping" are rather foriegn to the culture producing these creeps.

First off, the concept of "stalking" is relatively unknown in the region. A SoF article discussed teaching sniping to Israeli soldiers, and the US instructor noted there was no such word in the language and explaining the concept took a while (yes, that's Israelis rather than Arabs, but if that sort of concept is lacking in one spot it's probably lacking in the region). One crashes in upon one's enemy with grandeur; there is no glory in a secret attack.

Next, we're discussing terrorists who want to cause so much death and destruction in one blow that the act takes their own lives. In their minds, nothing is more heroic to the cause or more worthy of heavenly rewards than such a powerful all-consuming strike on the infidels.

Finally, they want to feel power over their enemy while said enemy cowers in fear at the destructive wrath of ... well ... a bunch of backwards third-world losers. They want to gloat (at least at the thought of the results).

Between these, the concept of random sniping, covert arson, or other devestating attacks just do not have the grandeur they seek. Death in a grand glorious world-shaking enemy-shattering single strike is what they seek. Crushing your enemy so you can return to normal life means nothing to them ... because their normal life is pathetic.

I'll give you that, ctdonath - for foreign terrorists, but still too, there will be "domestic terrorists" who want only for the politicians/rogue cops to stop their nonsense.

These same type folk - 4/19/1775 on the Concord Green are envisoned as heros & some of the best our country had to offer at the time - & are still enshrined as The First who stood against a .guv's tyranny.

Again, give it time. There will be "domestic terrorists" who will stand against what our .guv has become & I am so surprised that it hasn't come to pass as yet.

"Foreign terrorists?" Bah & humbug! We'd better watch out for those of our own who have become so disgusted with our own government that some will start to snipe the ne'er-do-wells.

And we, as an entity, do have the wherewithall, the means & opportunity to do so in such a manner as to literally shut this country down - not to mention send a very real signature that we'll take this BS no longer.

Again, I have no desire to do so, nor would condone it, but I can't imagiine that some of those haven't done it already.

I'm worried about damage both to infrastructure and economy... I can see two scenarios...

1) Multiple sniper teams around the country targeting interstates, going after trucks, etc. - That'd have the double-threat of shutting down interstate commerce and interstate travel.

2) Shopping mall/discount store attacks, involving teams to control shoppers for either a mass execution/scoot or a drawn-out hostage situation.

Eventually these guys are going to learn how to manipulate the media even more than they're doing right now...

Child's play, bogie, & you're not thinking The Big Picture.

A "domestic sniper attack," by those who know how to would involve.

I don't envision shooting truckers - after all, they trnsport our stuff & aren't real targets of opportunity.

What I do see is a selective assassinations of rogue cops &/or political advocates of anti-freedom"activists."

Both groups are astsute in their views & are are, in my my of looking at things, legitimate targets for crimes against the constitutition - enimies/foreign & domestic.

Again, a "shoot 'n scoot"-type prerson, using multiple calpbers/riflings would throw the LEOs into such a state of frenzy ,,,,,, personally, I've easily 5X .30-06. , a few .243s. several .223s which could acount for God only knows "how many terrorists" are out there - besidess the "ballistic info" availble at the target.

If nothing else, a 180 grain .30-06 really doesn't leave much for a "ballistic match" as it just blows through the target & doesn't realy leave much of a ballistic trace ....

Again, merely msusings, & nothing advacinting an advocating.

Just thinking from my back groundground.....

Ah, but if you're looking to inflict economic damage, what better to do than to stop, or at least slow, interstate transport, and at the same time keep people from shopping? I can easily envision truckers refusing to drive except in armed convoys - and the arabs could do this with only a few teams, and a few thousand bucks... Remember - these guys are LOW TECH. They don't build or buy cruise missiles - they STEAL them, and then guide them manually... They got some big clankin' ones, I'll give 'em that, but...

" can easily envision truckers refusing to drive except in armed convoys ... "

& really what would that do? A lone sniper could do the "shoot 'n scoot"-thing & nothing armed would have any effect whatsoever = undetectable.

& I wouldn't be worrying about "armed Arabs," I'd be more concerned about just your normal, everyday citizen that is so fed up with the state of affairs that he finally decides to "snap."

Figure that we've got easily 100K+ combat-trained veterans from The 'Nam, another 100K+ who have gone through some sort of spec-ops-stuff & another 10 million who just own scoped deer rifles .....

Some of them will become enough pi$$ed off enough to "some day" decide "enough is enough" & will do something about it.

I am further amazed daily that this sort of retaliation has not already ocurred.

labgrade, you're missing something...

The thing is, if you manage to hinder interstate transportation even 10%, you're gonna throw a serious hurt on the economy... Besides, what'll happen if 10% of ground-based transportation is disrupted, and the cities get 10% less food, etc? I can see panics, etc...

That's the thing - they wouldn't be trying to shoot truckers - that'd merely be the tool - they'd be trying to keep truckers from driving...

An analogy would be a minefield. A minefield is not there to kill enemy soldiers - it is to keep the enemy soldiers from maneuvering in that area.

I wasn't missing it, bogie, just pointing out the more obvious.

"Armed convoys" of truckers isn't going to happen, any more than a "protectorive service" for every day commutors.

"Armed convoys" would be so transparent as to be just silly. The "shoot 'n scoot" scenario would be so likely effective that nothing "armed" would make any difference whatsoever.

Can't argue with your point though, even a 10% shutting down of interstate transport would very much so disrupt our economy.

But, a sniping campaign against rogue cops/polititians would so much more disrupt our world than anything else I could think of - & "Arabs" aren't gonna figure in the mix - it'll be our own pi$$ed off folks who have finally had it.

We are in agreement, just pointing out obvious points from a different angle, I'd think.

Hey - I remember some of the seventies...

I can _easily_ see armed convoys, or at least escorted convoys... A dozen sniper teams around the country targeting truckers would mean that you'd have unions screaming, and lots of truckers refusing to run. Things would mushroom.

Sure, one could target politicans, etc., but that'd be relatively difficult and require planning, likely more difficult and more planning than the individual cells could handle. Remember - low-tech is where it's at, and disruption to the economy/infrastructure is an aim.

Two scenarios...

On day one, a dozen politicans/officials get nailed. Government goes into a blame frenzy. Day two, it happens again (not likely, not without enough planning...), blame frenzy gets worse. Lockdown, checkpoints, etc. implemented around areas. Day three, different areas hit (way not likely, due to planning issue of hitting a specific target. Law enforcement flocks to cordon off areas, and traffic backs up for miles, but due to millions of people, do not apprehend. Day four, different targets in different areas (planning...), blame frenzy, and goverment employees say that they're not going to go to work. Hmm...

On day one, a dozen trucks are hit on interstates. Media frenzy. On day two, a dozen MORE trucks are hit. Shooting is done near major interstate intersections. Some police presence is seen on the interstates. On day three, a dozen more are hit, truckstops are nothing but talk and parked trucks, and the unions are screaming at Washington. Day four, another dozen trucks are hit, but most truckers are sitting it out. Supermarkets in cities start to run out of food and other stuff (beer!), and several near-riots occur. Traffic backs up for miles at police checkpoints. As consumer goods run short, rioting escalates.