Conceal carry etiquette in someone's home

Ed Ames said:

If a person invites another into her home, she tacitly accepts both the known, and potentially unknown, traits of the invitee even if she would find those traits offensive. Even if the invitation would not have been extended with full knowledge.

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Thanks for taking the time to articulate this so well.

Originally Posted by Ed Ames View Post
If a person invites another into her home, she tacitly accepts both the known, and potentially unknown, traits of the invitee even if she would find those traits offensive. Even if the invitation would not have been extended with full knowledge.

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Why should she accept?
IF he/she has stated no guns, then that means no guns, not " let me disrespect their views in their homes by being a sneak" attitude. If you are so scared that you can't leave it in the car, then don't go.
It's called being honest, something I THOUGHT the name of this forum is all about.
I guess I was wrong, as it seems to be a selective process

The Honest Road? I don't recall seeing that name. Nor "the Full Disclosure Road" nor the "Accept My Personal View of Morality Road."

You consider this to be THE moral position to take. Others disagree completely. Don't use lowbrow guilt-trip tactics to denigrate those who don't agree with you. THAT's what the forum name means! Your tone here does not rise to that high standard.

And neither does the view that disrespecting your host's wishes.
I'm done with this one.

I think this question was missed when I presented it the first time

scaatylobo said:

Business access to homes !!!

I see going into a strangers house armed is "possibly" violating that persons RIGHT to a gun free zone !.

They might have religious cause,or just be deathly afraid of guns [ that is sad,but possible ].

If you do not ASK for permission to enter,then I see your more in violation of that persons RIGHTS --- than you are when visiting a friend that actually might [ should ? ] know your armed.

Carry that to the next step = do you need to announce that wherever you go,you need a town crier to walk ahead and announce your walking that way ----- and are armed ?.

After all , you "could" be violating anothers gun free zone.

My rule is ALWAYS the same,if there is no magnetometer at the door ----- I am not armed !.

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Do you ask before entering if you possess a pocket knife?

oneounceload said:

Why should she accept?

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Because she took an affirmative action - extended an invitation - and that action by its nature includes accepting both the known and unknown traits of the invitee. If instead of an invitation she had given an application form to be considered for invitation things would be different.

oneounceload said:

IF he/she has stated no guns, then that means no guns, not " let me disrespect their views in their homes by being a sneak" attitude. If you are so scared that you can't leave it in the car, then don't go.

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I addressed that in my previous post. A person who offers contingent invitations ("You are welcome to spend New Years Eve with us as long as you don't bring your wife.") is not much of a host. And personally I would no more accept an "as long as you leave your guns at home" invitation than a "as long as you don't bring a black guest" invitation. It doesn't matter whether I intended to do so (bring a gun or a black guest) by the way; bigotry is offensive enough on its face that I don't want to associate with bigots even if they find me acceptable.

oneounceload said:

It's called being honest, something I THOUGHT the name of this forum is all about.
I guess I was wrong, as it seems to be a selective process

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It actually has nothing to do with honesty. My right to privacy within my clothes trumps a host's right to know that I have political views, car preferences, private tattoos, key chain accessories, photos on my phone, guns, or anything else they might find offensive. Simply put, they have no right to know what's under my shirt, in my pants, or behind my eyes, and simply entering their home doesn't grant them anything. The idea it should is offensive because it is nothing but a way to enable bigotry. If you don't want people you find objectionable in your home, don't invite people into your home (or have kids).

Sam1911 said:

The Honest Road? I don't recall seeing that name. Nor "the Full Disclosure Road" nor the "Accept My Personal View of Morality Road."

You consider this to be THE moral position to take. Others disagree completely. Don't use lowbrow guilt-trip tactics to denigrate those who don't agree with you. THAT's what the forum name means! Your tone here does not rise to that high standard.

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The "High Road" should go both ways. I see condescension and "low brow guilt-trip tactics" coming from both sides....unnecessarily. Again this is etiquette, not what is the law and each one of us has our own set of values and sense of respect. It is all about a moral position, again on both sides on the fence. What I see lacking from both sides of the fence is respect of the other sides opinion. Ironic since this thread is all about respect. The topic of etiquette has always been subjective and open to disagreement. Ain't worth gettin' one's undies in a knot about.

I must be fortunate in where I live. I freely walk to and from buildings and from vehicles and buildings all the time and do not feel I am in grave danger when I'm not armed. But I am aware of my surroundings and what's happening within them. While I inform my host that does not know or ask about my CWC, I've yet to be told to disarm or leave. In most instances it becomes a topic of conversation and they inform me that they too CWC, and neither of us is concerned we have endangered ourselves. Sometimes the acknowledgement is an example of not only informing the host of CWC, but showing them the facts that CWC is safe and is practiced by folks they did not suspect, and opens a conversation about how they too can legally CWC. As others have said, I've yet to go someplace voluntarily that I felt so unsafe, as to not go unarmed. If there is that much danger present. I don't go voluntarily generally, even if I am armed. SD is about more than just carrying a gun concealed. The amount of risks involved in the choices I make are just not there,(Don't insult me and tell me I don't know my own risks. I CWC because I know my risks), and my informing the host has never made me any more vulnerable.

That said, I know there are many that live in places the present more danger. I know there are folks out there that feel there is more risk than I do. If folks don't want to tell, so be it. I'm sure they have their reasons just as I do for what I do. I don't think any less of them for their choice, nor do I feel the need to condescend/chastise them for it. I don't walk in their shoes and ask that others don't judge me till they walk in mine. Pretty simple. Make your choices based on your experiences.

I didn't read the thread, but I'll give what is strictly my opinion.

Most of the folks that know me well enough to invite me into their homes know that there is a very big possibility that I'm armed.

If there is a situation where someone invites me into their home that doesn't know me that well, I just keep my mouth shut. My firearm is concealed at all times and 99% of the time I'm not printing at all, so there's really not that big a chance they would see it.

If they specifically state that they do not wish to have firearms in their home for whatever reason (I can't imagine why this would come up) then I would respect their wishes. I would either leave the gun in my locked vehicle or decline their offer to come inside.

For example I have an aunt who I am very fond of that I know isn't the biggest fan of firearms. She has very good intentions but our views don't line up on many things. However I would accept an invitation to go to her house. My hand gun would go into the glove box or console because I respect her wishes in her home. Now if she were to come to my home, I would change nothing. Her home, her wishes get respected. My home mine do.

Just my 0.02 on the matter.

Interesting how even on this site, some focus on the gun rather than the person.

Having a gun does not imply criminal intent and is nothing to apologize for or feel apprehensive about.

I assume any visitor to my home to be armed. Rather than worrying about if they're carrying, I look to my level of trust of the individuals.

Just like all flawed gun laws, those four states assume a criminal will give notice. How funny is that?

harrygunner said:

I assume any visitor to my home to be armed. Rather than worrying about if they're carrying, I look to my level of trust of the individuals.

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Yeah, if I dont trust someone well enough to invite them into my home, I dont invite them into my home...

It's your life, live it as you see fit.

Just like all flawed gun laws, those four states assume a criminal will give notice. How funny is that?

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As I've said earlier on the thread, Harry, it's beyond funny. Those 4 states making it mandatory to disclose that you are carrying to the homeowner are ridiculous.

As bad or worse than the 9 states that make you disclose to the LEO that you are carrying upon official contact while driving a motor vehicle. Another clueless, feel good law.

Fortunately, in both cases. those states are in the large minority.

What is really remarkable is that in the case of Alaska, Arkansas,Louisiana and South Carolina you must do both! That is not a good daily double.

my body,my rules

I found it interesting that a few actually think they are safe in ANY place or any area :banghead:.

There are attacks due to any number of causes & reasons.

These occur ANY PLACE & ANYTIME,domestic violence attack of a spouse or significant other , attack of a prior employee,drunk or stoned moron !.

The list is too long,but if you think your safe while enroute to or from ANYPLACE,then I say your just not that interested in being safe all the time.

Its my body,and the good Lord put me in charge of its safe keeping.

As well as my spouse's,that being the case.I will be able to take care of matters no matter the time OR location.

I have never been told to disarm prior to entering a residence,if that happened I would not enter.

I see what happens in "gun free zones",and I want no part of that .

I must on rare occasions go into "guarded" buildings that check and scan me,then I am hoping the "guards" are better than the Secret Service at protecting me in that "gun free zone".

I have a very good female friend whose mother does not like guns. She makes it clear that she is scared of them and doesn't want them around her. She actually has a very valid reason, for herself, because her brother killed himself with a gun. She has never stated that she did not want me to bring a gun into her house and I have never told her that I have a gun when I enter the house. I always have a gun on me (at least every time I have entered her home) and I have spent several range sessions working with her daughter as she contemplates buying her first gun for HD (at age 53 might I add).
Would I walk in carrying my AR-15 and a 1911 on my hip? No, because I know the homeowner isn't comfortable around guns. In a pocket holster or IWB I have absolutely zero issue with it.

@ jrdolall

I disagree STRONGLY with your understanding as to why she has a fear / distrust of guns.

I am willing to bet anything,that the death she experienced was NOT the fault of a gun gone violent.

It was a CHOICE made by a person,just as taking pills to kill yourself has happened MANY times = but I have never heard of anyone becoming afraid of pills and not willing to have them in the house,even if a loved one took their life with pills !.

Just as logical as not keeping a razor [ or ANY sharp item in home ] due to losing a loved one from an edged suicide.

People CHOOSE to fear inanimate objects as that might be easier than facing the realitys of life.

I'm just sayin,s'all.

Well scaaty whether or not you agree with why this woman is afraid of guns is irrelevant. I certainly could care less how you feel about my UNDERSTANDING. She does not like them because her brother used one to kill himself. Is that a rational fear? Not in my book. But this isn't my book, it's hers. If he had died in a car wreck would she be afraid of cars? I don't think I will pose that question to her.
Just because you and I aren't afraid of guns doesn't mean we are right..in someone else's mind. I know plenty of people that are afraid of spiders and mice. Those fears are irrational in my mind.

I don't disclose the presence of my firearm just like I don't disclose the presence of my Leatherman, my Streamlight or the contents of my wallet. Concealed means concealed and announcing it by definition defeats the purpose. It is up to those of us who carry to know the laws but I think there is a flip side to that: it's up to those who stridently object to know the laws as well. If you don't want a firearm in your home or place of business, you need to post it (at least in NC). If it is posted, I will respect your private property rights with absolutely no issue; most of the time that will manifest as me staying away from your property.

For those who live in the 4 states that require disclosure, I will point out that there is an election tomorrow.

JohnnytheRipper in comment 73 says:

Being that I ask myself what would my Japanese friend, who is like a brother to me, would do in the situation, I would leave the gun in my car without even asking.

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Is that supposed to mean that since a friend might leave his gun in a car, then you would too? What does the friend's Nationally have to do with it in this country? Does he normally carry a gun in this country? If not, How is what he would do relevant.

Okay, my turn: My wife was Japanese, and is now American, has more guns than I do, and carries when and where legal. If asked to disarm, she would make a decision as to how to respond — but she does nothing without duly considering the alternatives and consequences. I might add that her family in Japan are cool with her CCW/CPL and, yes, she does carry when they visit here.

I have one home that I visit I have to leave my Pistol in the car .. Family thing so I have to go in . everywhere else if I must disarm to enter I do not enter . Not a big deal

buck460XVR said:

Don't insult me and tell me I don't know my own risks.

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scaatylobo said:

I found it interesting that a few actually think they are safe in ANY place or any area :banghead:.

There are attacks due to any number of causes & reasons.

These occur ANY PLACE & ANYTIME,domestic violence attack of a spouse or significant other , attack of a prior employee,drunk or stoned moron !.

The list is too long,but if you think your safe while enroute to or from ANYPLACE,then I say your just not that interested in being safe all the time.

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How did I know someone would insult me and think they know more about my safety and the amount of risk I encounter than I do? That comment bears some resemblance to the " lowbrow guilt-trip tactics" that Sam posted about.



...again, even tho I tell my host, I have never been denied entry, been asked to leave or been asked to disarm. This means I have put myself at risk exactly ZERO times more than folks here that don't tell. Still those folks insist I am putting my life at risk. Either they can't read, can't comprehend what they read or just ignore what they read. Gotta be some kind of risk in that I assume.

scaatylobo said:

People CHOOSE to fear inanimate objects as that might be easier than facing the realitys of life.

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Probably similar to those that believe that not having a firearm on them 100% of the time puts them at a great risk and chose to ignore the realities of life. Funny, I am 61 years old. Up until 3 years ago this month, I could not legally carry concealed in my state and somehow I manged to live as long as I have without a single incident. I also live in an area where folks do not feel threatened or intimidated when someone legally carries a firearm. I feel sorry for folks that need to hide from their friends that they are carrying. Makes we wonder what kind of friends they have. Believe me when I tell you I know what the risks out there are and I carry and act appropriately. I don't know anyone else's situations, so I do not feel I can legitimately tell them what to do. I just wish they would do the same.

"my body,my rules
I found it interesting that a few actually think they are safe in ANY place or any area :banghead: ."

ok. counter question: what car do you drive?

given that statistically speaking you are at a MUCH, MUCH higher risk of dying in a car accident versus the slim-to-none risk of being attacked inside the house of friends.... wouldn't it make sense for you to drive the SAFEST, biggest, most secure car ever?

I mean ... before worrying that you might be defenseless while eating a cake Sunday afternoon at your friends place without carrying.... I'd rather safe up and lease that 7series or S-Class.

Because it's a tad funny that some are so worried about risk and then MIGHT drive home from their friends place in a 10 yr old car with a poor crash safety rating...

On the other side of the coin, as a host, I want to know who's carrying and who isn't. While I feel safe around most of my friends when they have firearms, there are acquaintances of mine and friends of friends that I do not. If my wife's girlfriend brings some guy I never met to our home, how do I know he is not a ticking time bomb waiting to go off? I don't trust folks I don't know with firearms as I do not know their proficiency nor their safe handling techniques. That's reality. Just cause someone owns a firearm does not mean they are safe and to be trusted with it. I need to know. Giving someone I don't know a free pass ain't gonna happen. The risk from someone with unknown character and gun handling is just as much of a risk as a bad guy kickin' in my door. Especially where I live. Goes for you folks here too. Don't matter how much you pound your chest and brag about how well you shoot. You ain't comin' in my house with a loaded gun till I can trust you and your gun handling.

I concealed carry everywhere I go. I can carry everywhere except jails, mental health facilities, and courtrooms (with some exceptions). My state allows private property owners to post "no gun" signs if they wish. When I enter private property or a business, etc, and I do not see such a sign, I carry.

...till I can trust you and your gun handling.

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To be quite clear, though -- there should be NO gun handling going on. There's a difference between gun carrying and gun handling.

So long as it stays in the holster, I don't care WHO's carrying a gun or how lousy their proficiency might be.

Good point Sam. ^^^^

The Dove