Why .40 when there is 10mm?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Trying to convince 10mm fans that their G20's aren't the greatest guns ever that shoot the best cartridge ever made is futile. In their minds it has 41 magnum power with 9mm recoil and 6mm ppc rifle accuracy.
 
I love 10mm and I resisted 40 S&W for a long time just because I didn't want to have to sort cases. I finally relented when I realized just how cheap surplus cases are on the resale market.

Not everybody needs 10mm power, and people with small hands really appreciate that 40 fits into a smaller gun. As for myself I'm gradually figuring out how to use 40 cases in 10mm guns.

Trying to convince 10mm fans that their G20's aren't the greatest guns ever that shoot the best cartridge ever made is futile. In their minds it has 41 magnum power with 9mm recoil and 6mm ppc rifle accuracy
Click to expand...
Are you sure you aren't talking about my S&W 1006?
 
Yeah and trying to convince people that their 380 with modern ammo is just as effective as a 10 or 45 because they are faster back on target is equally futile. Honestly, how many more rounds does anyone think they can get off in your average gunfight?
 
To wally: i guess I should have stated " using the same load". Thought common sense would take care of that. I have a g20 and a g21. I also have a DW CBOB in 10 & 45. Using like loads ( or as close that is practical), there is no appreciable difference. I'm not saying that everyone can handle either guns recoil. If you can't handle the recoil, then train more or find another caliber. But there are plenty of people who carry and shoot their 10mm just fine.
 
Yeah and trying to convince people that their 380 with modern ammo is just as effective as a 10 or 45 because they are faster back on target is equally futile. Honestly, how many more rounds does anyone think they can get off in your average gunfight?
Click to expand...

Probably 5 or 6. HOWEVER, those will be 5 or 6 stressful shots. If your life is in danger you will be hard pressed to keep from shooting as quickly as you can. Thing is, with the lower recoil gun you're more likely to be getting the gun back on target (or close to it) versus something with high recoil.

All things being equal, the lower the recoil, the more accurate your shots will be. I own guns in a variety of calibers. I don't own a 10mm or a .357 Mag but have shot both before. They both recoil significantly more than .40S&W, or .45 ACP. .45ACP and .40S&W both recoil a good bit more than 9mm.

Don't get me wrong - I can take my .45 or any of my .40's and shoot a nice tight group all day long - IF I take my time doing it. But if I'm going to take the gun and unload it as quickly as possible and keep all shots reasonably close together - the 9mm is king there (actually, .22LR is amazing for that but IMHO the balance gets out of whack below the 9mm power level).

As another poster said - if you don't believe it - take a shot timer and try it yourself. Compared to a low-recoiling round, a high recoiling one is either going to have to give up speed or accuracy. That's true at pretty much any skill level. The amounts might be different (ie, a really good pistol shooter with a 10mm could beat a novice using a 9mm), but when competing against yourself you'll always see the difference.
 
To wally: i guess I should have stated " using the same load". Thought common sense would take care of that. I have a g20 and a g21. I also have a DW CBOB in 10 & 45. Using like loads ( or as close that is practical), there is no appreciable difference
Click to expand...

So downloading 10mm to match the recoil of the .45ACP, and surprise, you've re-invented the .40S&W requiring a large framed pistol.

This seems obvious, and is why there is the .40S&W!
 
The 10mm is nearly a dead letter now. The guns are few * * * There are very few choices; you can get a Glock or a 1911, or choose from a smattering of oddball makers. * * *
Click to expand...

Dude, please ... get informed. :rolleyes:

The Smith 3rd Gen 10mms are still around, and you failed to mention Tanfoglio's CZ-style 10mm Witnesses (standard, Match & Elite models), which EAA imports and which can be found the shelves of LGSs, or easily obtained from on-line places like Bud's.

According to the latest from Vltor, their resurrected & "improved" version of the original 10mm Bren Ten pistol is still a viable project. Presently they are making certain engineering changes to proto-type models. Perhaps we'll get a peak at same at the 2015 S.H.O.T.?

See: https://www.vltor.com/2014/01/09/bren-ten-update-2014-2/

Also, if the 10mm cartridge was "a dead letter now," why would Sig have recently announced that it intends to produce three 220 models chambered for it? Hmmmm? :scrutiny:

See here: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/09/foghorn/sig-sauer-working-on-a-p220-in-10mm/

And here: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/10/01/sig-p220-10mm/

I forgot who the importer is going to be, but another CZ-pattern pistol made by the Yugo company, GrandPower, will be offered on the U.S. market in 10mm. It's reportedly a much scaled-up version of the 9mm model that's already here.

Yeah, I'd say we're going to be seeing more, not less, pistols chambered for the 10mm AUTO. ;)

motivatorb1e9472e259df71cdf008b9e32.jpg

:cool:
 
Last edited:
Well I do think the 10MM is the best self-defense round in hand gun use today. In that regard it is the best invention since the .357 Magnum. I own both 40 S&W and 10MM and choose to carry the 40 due to ease of concealment and prefer a smaller sidearm in that regard. The 10MM in a larger hand gun gives great penetration with manageable recoil for self-defense. I'm of the opinion that for self-defense a large diameter bullet with penetration is a winning combination.
 
However, why go 40 and compromise between 9 and 45, when you can have 10mm and the best of power and capacity.
Click to expand...
More power is not "the best" unless you need it

A shot to a lung that hits nothing vital and goes through the target won't help very much at all. Three quick shots on target that have adequate penetration will serve a defender much better.

When shooting through plate glass or metal, or shooting larger animals, the additional power will be useful. Otherwise, it is a liability.

That liability can manifest itself in terms of missed repeat shots; penetration through too many walls; higher sound pressure; and cumulative, permanent nerve, joint, and tendon damage, if one practices with heavy loads.
 
I can conceal my g20...train so that followup shots are timely and have great capacity. Win win for the 10mm for me
 
Potatohead said:
Uhhh...capacity.
Click to expand...


Capacity???

Uhhh.....10mm and .40 are the same diameter.

The .40 is based on the 10mm and is basically just a shorter case......so there is no difference in "capacity".
 
The guns are few??

There are currently 16 Manufacturer's making 10mm weapons, that's more than ANY other time in history.
And that's just the ones I know about...probably at least two or three more out there...

The ammo is best when Handloaded using Army Marksmanship Unit techniques.
In other words, be rather OCD when you do it...don't screw up.
If in doubt, or interrupted, dump the powder & start over.
 
I bought a 10mm Kimber because I like 1911's and because I reload. Don't own any .40 guns since all I carry is .45. The 10mm is just a fun gun but if I didn't reload I wouldn't have bought the 10mm and 44mag. Now I added a lever gun in 44mag, all because I reload.
 
I'm a huge 10mm fan, and I also really like the 40s&w as well. after I really got into the 10mm and developed handloads for it I had the chance to shoot a doe with a handloaded 180gr xtp. The bullet did it's job, and also exited (broad side shot @ 40 yards). This experience led me to believe the 10mm would easily pass through a person, anyone behind them, and so on. Not the ideal situation for self defense in an urban environment. With that I decided that if the 10mm going 1350fps (6" barrel) can level a deer and exit, a 180gr in the 40s&w case going 1000 - 1150fps is ideal for carry. The FBI came to the same conclusion for their own reasons well before I did, and I see why. To each their own, but based on my experience I think the 40s&w is a better SD cartridge for urban environments for penetration reasons.
 
I guess the OP could have also asked, why .40 when there is .357 Sig. :D
 
It's a matter of personal preference whatever caliber you choose. 40 S&W is based on a hundred plus year old law enforcement ballistic model.
 
Looking at Underwood's loadings for 155gr:

.40S&W - Muzzle Velocity: 1300 fps & Muzzle Energy: 582 ft. lbs
10mm - Muzzle Velocity: 1500 fps & Muzzle Energy: 775 ft. lbs.

Seems like a significant difference.
 
Jorzac said:
1. I did misstate the formula for energy; I stated mass x velocity squared, its actually 1/2 mass x velocity squared.
Click to expand...

You are still incorrect. Here is a hint Energy = Mass multiplied by the speed of light squared is not how energy is calculated but an equivalency. How Kinetic Energy is calculated is what you are attempting to describe.

3.10mm doesn't recoil anymore than a 45, and you seldom hear people complain about the recoil of the 45. Everybody should shoot the caliber/pistol combo that allows them to put as many of the most effective bullets that they can safely do so.
Click to expand...

Full power 10mm ammunition creates considerably more recoil than .45acp.

4. A lot of the people that weigh in on the 10mm, are doing so based on heresy and internet rumor with no real time actually shooting them.
Click to expand...

I am not one of those people.
Click to expand...
 
Mainsail said:
Looking at Underwood's loadings for 155gr:

.40S&W - Muzzle Velocity: 1300 fps & Muzzle Energy: 582 ft. lbs
10mm - Muzzle Velocity: 1500 fps & Muzzle Energy: 775 ft. lbs.

Seems like a significant difference.
Click to expand...

It only seems significant because bigger numbers appear impressive. When shooting human beings that extra 193 foot-pounds of muzzle energy is about as significant to outcome as the difference between dropping a 582 pound boulder or a 775 pound boulder on a persons chest.
 
Nom de Forum said:
It only seems significant because bigger numbers appear impressive. When shooting human beings that extra 193 foot-pounds of muzzle energy is about as significant to outcome as the difference between dropping a 582 pound boulder or a 775 pound boulder on a persons chest.
Click to expand...

...assuming that there is nothing other than air between the dropper of the boulder and the person's chest.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

el Godfather
  • Locked
Recent affinity for 10mm
2 3
Replies
70
Views
4K
Arkansas Paul
Arkansas Paul
L
.40 vs 10mm for CCW/Self-Defense (Against Humans)
2 3 4 5 6
Replies
140
Views
5K
sparkyv
sparkyv
1
  • Locked
Need a reliable DA/SA convertible between 10mm and 40 S&W
Replies
13
Views
757
gunfan
G
H
  • Locked
.40 guys: Sell me on .40 S&W...
2
Replies
36
Views
2K
jonboynumba1
J
J
Glock 20 Stopping Power?
2 3
Replies
55
Views
2K
crestoncowboy
C
Back
Top