Gun lovers leaving Smith & Wesson for dead?

The buying panic isn't over. It is simply on hiatus. Obama is still the president. Race riots are on the incline. Looting is on the rise. People are scared. The 'state' is grabbing power left and right. People are loosing freedom and the power that their rights afforded them once upon a time.

No, it doesn't really look that bad for S&W - or any arms manufacturer.

Don't let the bravo sierra cloud your vision.

Woody

A lot of people find the internal lock a reason not to buy a Smith. When I went looking for a new 357 a few months ago I bought a Ruger because of the IL. If the IL was not there I would have bought a S&W. Drop the lock.

ConstitutionCowboy said:

The buying panic isn't over. It is simply on hiatus. Obama is still the president. Race riots are on the incline. Looting is on the rise. People are scared. The 'state' is grabbing power left and right. People are loosing freedom and the power that their rights afforded them once upon a time.

No, it doesn't really look that bad for S&W - or any arms manufacturer.

Don't let the bravo sierra cloud your vision.

Woody

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Right, all that plus sometime, somewhere, will be another Looney tunes that will shoot something and the threat of gun control will start again. It's repeated itself before and sadly, probably will again.

Their new 5=shot .44 Mag sorta interests me. I wish they'd offered it in .45 Colt or .45 ACP. I don't really need to add another caliber to my list of cartridges for which I must reload.

I buy all of my smiths used because of the lock. Drop the lock and I'd look at a new gun.

Same here. I own a lot of Smiths but none are IL.

Comrade Mike said:

I buy all of my smiths used because of the lock. Drop the lock and I'd look at a new gun.

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oops read your message wrong. sorry i get what you said now. apologies.

Unfavorable appearance aside, the IL really makes no difference to me personally. I don't like the ugly IL, but it doesn't stop me from buying one of the very finest revolvers made, of which I think S&W will probably retain that reputation for decades to come. Does the IL impact their sales? I would think undoubtedly so.

I would bet that as gun control comes and goes, that we will eventually experience another stupid law that will require an internal locking system on all handguns, hope not, but....

GS

While I too am not wild about the lock, the most accurate S&W revolvers are being made now. As far as being in money trouble, I think Colt would trade financial situations with S&W in a heartbeat.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-13/colt-defense-searches-for-financing-as-default-looms.html

S&W bought a company that produces and distributes targets, rests, reloading equipment and other shooting and gun care supplies. Seems this is a wise investment after a period of high gun sales. While gun sales are decreasing they are not stopping. Gun sales are just back to normal. This is true of all firearms regardless of manufacturer. If the lock was a serious sales detriment to S&W they would eliminate it. Similar to the billboard ads Ruger ran on the barrels of their firearms for a while. Colt is having more serious financial problems than S&W. If they go, S&W will reap some of the harvest and Colt's demise will just make them stronger. While Smith bashers wish the company would go down in flames, the loss of such good competition in the handgun industry would hurt even those that don't or won't own a Smith. If Smith goes down all the guys bragging about buying old Smiths will be in serious hurt for replacement parts and repair.

Today's average Joe is cheap.

I love the old Smiths but they have about priced themselves out of the new gun market. Only the dyed-in-the-wool gunmen will spend an extra $200 for a Smith over a Ruger. The average buyer will look at the Taurus before the Ruger or the Smith. I've seen it at the local shows. I can sell all the Model 19's, 27's and 29's that I can get if I can buy them right, but I have to do it online. The locals are really tight with their bucks. IF I set up at another local show, all I will have is cheap handguns and very few long guns. I'll save the quality stuff for online.

With the boom in sales over the last few years S&W probably was cash rich. This purchase may have been to reduce their cash holdings and increase their debt, and thus make them less of a take over target.

Comrade Mike said:

I buy all of my smiths used because of the lock. Drop the lock and I'd look at a new gun.

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Why do they offer certain guns without the lock, but not others? For instance, I know the 442 is still offered in a no-lock variation. I believe the 642 is as well (basically the same gun without the coating, but still). I think the 640PD (357mag, heavier version of the 442, but I might have goofed on the model name) is also.

If it was a legal matter, wouldn't the lock be on EVERY gun they make? So why don't they just drop it? Are there people out there who actually want the lock? I'm sure there are people who are neutral... but how many want it?

The average S&W buyer cares less about locks, no locks, or any locks.

I had a customer once, hemming and hawing between a Ruger GP and a Smith 686+ with an unfluted cylinder. It was a nice new Smith and the GP was pretty ho hum but still, the GP was 200 dollars more.

The guy asked, what that little hole was. I told him. And that is what produced an immediate sale of that Smith.

Most others, pay it no mind. Not all gun owners are gun enthusiasts. Most gun owners do not frequent this site and read threads ad nauseum about Smith ILs, Remlin, etc......even if they should.

the buying panic isn't over. It is simply on hiatus. Obama is still the president. Race riots are on the incline. Looting is on the rise. People are scared. The 'state' is grabbing power left and right. People are loosing freedom and the power that their rights afforded them once upon a time.

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THE SKY IS FALLING!! THE SKY IS FALLING!!

... again

Price point has always been an issue for me. Get me a 625 at $599 NIB and I'll buy one. At $899, I can keep waiting for a deal on a used one. Get me an E Series 1911 at $599 and I'll buy one, otherwise I'll wait.

Got lots of guns, can plenty afford to wait on more guns.

I have feeling S&W is more than prepared to suffer and thrive in the face of this drop in sales.

Bobson said:

If it was a legal matter, wouldn't the lock be on EVERY gun they make? So why don't they just drop it? Are there people out there who actually want the lock? I'm sure there are people who are neutral... but how many want it?

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The lock is required for the guns to be sold in California.

There are so many people in CA who want to buy guns and so few on the approved list for sale Smith makes enough money to basically ignore the rest of the country and just put the lock on everything.

Money may be the reason

Anytime a manufacturer changes a design, it usually costs them something. In this case, they may not want to retool so soon after the last change added the gun lock.

They are also probably being advised by lawyers who say that taking the lock off the gun will mean some fool who points his gun at a friend and pulls the trigger as a joke will blame the gun maker instead of the fool who did it.

Note, that S&W is offering some of their semi-autoes with manual safety's though the design makes them unnecessary.

Oh, S&W is probably not worried about money. They just signed a deal with GENERAL DYNAMICS to compete for the next U.S. military pistol competition. They have a good shot at it as long as GLOCK does not set up full production in the U.S. GLOCK already makes the model 42 in the U.S.

Jim

S&W makes some of the finest guns around! I think they will be around for a long time. I know I will continue to buy their products, IL or not!

Only the dyed-in-the-wool gunmen will spend an extra $200 for a Smith over a Ruger. The average buyer will look at the Taurus before the Ruger or the Smith.

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That may be true of revolvers, but I don't think it is true of semiautos, which are the majority of the market. The S&W M&P series seems to be selling very well. S&W's line of AR's is also very successful, and some of them are actually less expensive than the Ruger AR's.

I thought the purchase by Smith & Wesson of Battenfeld was a wise move in this economy. It seems to me that branching out can be productive if managed properly.

As for the lock, one of my favorite revolvers is a 4" 625 with the lock; at the time, it was very difficult to find a new 625 without the giant, screaming "JM" tattoo in the side, of which I would NEVER want on a personal firearm. I equate it to having another man's name tattooed in some private place on your wife. You can have the factory custom shop do everything else to the revolver to make it as good, without the graffiti.
The lock makes no difference, as this particular 625 is very accurate, from a Ransom rest with both my reloads and factory ammunition. It has been 100% reliable in over 6K rounds, and just gets smoother as it goes along.

I’m not going to say the facts as stated are incorrect, but it is MSN so it’s naturally going to have a negative slant.

Posted by ConstitutionCowboy: The buying panic isn't over. It is simply on hiatus. As soon as the next nut job goes on a rampage, the sales will be right back up. And I agree that if they got rid of the IL, S&W sales would probably go up. I’m also not too sure of the two piece barrels. Time will tell on that one.

I think I’ve bought over 15 S&W’s in the last few years, but only one new one with a lock.