Doc7
Member
Here is my trip report from an Appleseed first-timer. In this I hope to continue to spread the good word of Appleseed that has been mentioned elsewhere, discuss my equipment (a tube fed iron-sighted rifle) and go over some of what was discussed. I have seen many things written about the Appleseed project online, some true, some false, some good, some bad. What I write about below will only apply to my specific experience, as the events are largely run by local individuals and may vary greatly from one to another. I will let you know right off the bat that I am very happy about the weekend.
The Shooting Portions
For many months prior to Appleseed (probably even years if I were to search my forum history) I have been struggling with deciding if taking a tube-fed Marlin 60 with Tech Sights and a sling (the only upgrades I have made that affect the rifle’s function) was the best idea. Most people use a detachable mag-fed rifle and there are different considerations for a tube-fed, and also I was seriously concerned about my eyesight. As you will learn, I am not dissatisfied at all with my decision to bring this setup. In fact, I feel like I would have felt significantly less accomplished if I had used a scope, although this is not meant to take anything away from those who do use one, for eyesight or for any other reason.
We performed this Appleseed at Black Creek Shooter’s Association in Mechanicsville VA, 12/6-7. I wore my hunting pants with merino thermals underneath and a wool undershirt along with my heavy coat for the weekend as it was in the 40s and raining on Saturday, and in the 30s and sunny on Sunday. The website says to be prepared for any weather conditions, but it was a welcome relief anyway to see that the firing line was under a pavilion awning for us and our gear. We only got wet while exchanging targets and nobody complained about the weather.
On both mornings you are asked to leave your rifle(s) in the car until after a safety briefing is given. I felt that there was a strong dedication to safety throughout the event. I will get into my tube-fed specific information a little bit when I discuss equipment later on. I did find one thing odd about safety, in that multiple instructors recommended that I cradle the rifle in my right elbow with the butt on the ground while slinging up my left arm (on my knees at the time). I am not sure that I would do this at any other range as I did not prefer the muzzle of my barrel being only a few inches from the right side of my head and pointing up and slightly rearward even with the chamber flag being in. On the other hand, when carrying in the hunting field I am doing the same thing and in that case there is certainly no chamber flag in, so I think my apprehension had more to do with me preferring not to do anything that another shooter at a range firing line could insinuate is unsafe. I know without doubt that what I was doing was safe but if anyone walked up behind my right shoulder which is more likely at a range than in the field, they would have potentially been muzzle swept without me being aware of it.
Other than that they discussed their Appleseed specific rules which concerned safe handling of a firearm and what a “Safe rifle” consisted of. All very good and I was not at any time concerned that someone to my right or left would do something wrong.
We began the morning with a “Redcoat Target”. This consists of 4 different sizes of the standard Appleseed silhouette target, along with “Morgan’s Shingle” a small rectangular target, in a red color scheme. The target sizes correspond to a 100 yard, 200 yard, 300 and 400 yard silhouette and the shingle is approximately the size of a head at 250 yards, to replicate a shooting test given to people, with a small board, trying out for a rifle unit in Virginia during the American Revolution. One shot, two results for those guys; in or out. This was shot with absolutely no instruction other than the previously mentioned safety rules, and no guidance beyond, “Do your best” and instructions to use 13 rounds, 3 for each silhouette and one for the Shingle. I still didn’t know how to use my sling even though I had tried to figure it out from Youtube and forum posts, so I shot it prone with no sling.
I only got all 3 on the silhouette at the 100 yard target, missing a third hit on both the 200 and 300 by about ¼”. It was a great way to do a baseline at the beginning of the day. We were told we would do another one at the end of Saturday, as well as at the beginning and end of Sunday.
They then taught us how to use the sling and to be honest it was much easier to put it on and set it up than I had convinced myself it was prior to this live instruction. I could see the benefit from the very first moment I slung up and again laid in prone position. We fired 5 groups on a paper with 5 small sighter targets, with a little bit of instruction between each. By the time we were done, I was shooting groups that would have 4 shots in a little less than ½” (at 25 yards – I know my rifle is capable of 0.7” at 50, but that was with a 4x scope not the irons) but still having fliers (that I was CALLING- that is an important skill as well I now understand). With the targets used in this course, those groups would be more than plenty good enough. This isn’t about picking a gnat off a piece of paper. At the completion of these 5 groups you have been introduced to the sling usage, the 6 steps to taking a shot (sight picture, sight alignment, breathing, front sight focus, trigger squeeze and follow through), understand natural point of aim and also should have your sights pretty much zeroed in and fully understand the Prone position. I was truly amazed at how well I was shooting relative to what I had started off with and felt like I was making the biggest leaps in shooting I ever had in one day (or month).
Another sheet of paper was used for the seated and the standing position. I felt like I did pretty poorly at seated position. It wasn’t long before we did our first and second timed qualification tests to close out the day. (“AQT” which is Appleseed Qual Test, and based off the Army Qual Test). I scored about 190 in each and was pretty dejected to see how shabby my seated portion was in the 2nd AQT where I scored a 30/50. When I got home that night I told my wife that I wasn’t sure I would be able to pull off the AQT unless I really nailed down seated position and that I wasn’t feeling very confident about it. Now that I am looking at my paperwork back at home, I had scored a 48/50 in the first AQT but that 30/50 in the second was the only one I was remembering that night. In both AQTs I found counting shots something I was just doing terrible at, and in the last portion, throughout the weekend I would attempt to go 3/3/4/4 rounds in the bottom row of 4 prone silhouettes even though it is supposed to be 2/2/3/3 (duh, 10 rounds), run out of ammo on the 4th and realize I had done it again.
The next day’s shooting portion started off with another redcoat, at which I pulled off a 300 yard score and nailed the shingle. I was happy with that for sure. We proceeded right into AQTs. My first one I had some issues (one malfunction and then some issues with my own counting and equipment manipulation, as well as some other frustration I will mention in the Equipment section) but I was pleased to see that I had every shot in the 5 zone in the seated row, along with 2 shots in the “V” of both silhouettes on that row.
We did another AQT and then a pretty good test on NPOA that I think could be included really at any point in the weekend (or even multiple times if time allows). With a partner, in prone position you would find your natural point of aim on a simple aiming point, and then when ready signal your partner to lower a card in front of your sight. After a breathing cycle, fire a shot. Repeat this 5 times (set up NPOA before lowering card again) and see how you group. I had a good-not-great group indicating that I was muscling my rifle and not properly using NPOA. It was also low and right from the target. I think this was partly due to a heavy trigger but that is possibly just a weak excuse. My partner shot one of his tightest groups of the weekend on this exercise I think.
We continued on to do more AQTs. I felt really good about one and handed it in…next thing I know an instructor confirmed what my name was and whispered to me that I had passed with a 217! I was really excited and satisfied at that point. With an increased confidence, I proceeded to score a 222 on the next and final AQT!
The weekend ended with a final redcoat – I score a 300 again and failed to hit the shingle this time. I will be getting a lot of those targets and using those as a warmup at the range from now on and really look forward to the first time I “clean” one with 13 hits. The instructors indicated that a clean redcoat is far more rare than a Rifleman qualification and I believe it.
I was, and am, extremely proud of accomplishing the goal of Rifleman and really learning a LOT of technique. Whereas before I did what I thought was right, now I know what is right and what I need to work on (my goals are to get a clean eyes-closed NPOA group and a clean red coat)
Equipment
As mentioned, I used a Marlin 60, tube fed 22 with Tech Sights. I was able to definitively see my skills improving over the weekend (I had also less than 50 rounds with iron sights in my history before, excluding pistols, so the whole process was pretty new to me) and don’t feel limited by my choices. It seems like most posts out there (including mine) are about equipment and I hope newcomers understand it is NOT a big deal.
I did have a little adjustment to make. For Day 1, the instruction given to me was that I could load my tube during the Prep period after I was satisfied with my sling length, keeping the chamber flag in. This worked out very well for me. On Day 2 with two new instructors who couldn’t make Day 1 there, they asked me to modify this and not load my tube until after End-of-Prep period was called. I really screwed up my first 2 AQTs on Day 2 because I found that I was self-aware of holding up the entire firing line (~20ish people) while loading my tube and I was already full of adrenaline by the time the Fire command was given. I really preferred Day 1 and didn’t feel that what the instruction that day for a tube-fed mag was unsafe, but I followed their rules and obviously succeeded anyway in my goals on Day 2.
A tube-fed mag doesn’t need to do a reload during an AQT when called for by the instructions, but instead manually ejects a round by racking the bolt. I screwed this up 3 or 4 times over the day, causing the round to be lodged in the receiver which was another frustration but I was able to overcome anyway. I did have one failure to eject during normal firing which was I think my first failure with a CCI Standard Velocity (my 60’s most accurate ammo) in 2,000 rounds fired.
Regarding the peep sights, I was VERY concerned as I felt my eyesight was not going to be able to perform the required tasks. I did not find my eyesight to be an issue except in the last AQT of each day; the first one because the rainclouds and low winter sun caused it to be pretty dark and I think I was just fatigued for the last one on Day 2. In both cases the bottom row was intermittently disappearing on me.
Appleseed is NOT a competition event, so I don’t write this to put down anyone, but I was very surprised to see that only one or maybe two other shooters on the line had an iron-sighted rifle out there this weekend. I know that the Appleseed posts used to be heavily influenced by a pro-peep-sight mindset and I think the literature and posts are a lot more welcoming of all optics nowadays. One group of individuals had a couple of clean red coats on the first target shot on Day 1 and one of them scored an amazing 246 on the AQT. Now that takes skill no matter WHAT your equipment is and that was a great accomplishment. I don’t know however that our two rifles were in the same class regarding optics, barrel, stock, and modifications. Hey, if I had a really nice rifle I would not hesitate about bringing it out there. In other words, any rifle is welcome on the line from a sub $200 tube fed with iron sights to a tricked out 10/22 that costs half a paycheck.
Edit to add: I strongly suggest bringing both shaded and clear safety glasses as lighting conditions throughout the event may vary.
History and Politics
The history lessons were really interesting and as they pointed out a few times, frequently covered details that you didn’t learn in school. I enjoyed learning a lot of the stories especially liking Death on a Pale Horse and learning some of the personal details of people involved in the American Rev on both sides of the war. I think there was enough information there that the casual shooter / history buff (which my wife falls into) would find it interesting enough for the price of admission.
I have seen a lot of talk about Appleseed and people reading their literature and thinking that they are insinuating or encouraging certain things about what America is, what is should be, and what it takes to get there. Guess what, guys, they aren’t encouraging an armed insurrection like some yahoos out there think they are reading “between the lines” on their website. Here’s some words that were neither mentioned NOR implied over the weekend: “Republican” “Democrat” “Liberal” “Obama”.
Please, seriously, don’t read on their website about how they want America to become a better place and that part of that is training marksmanship and then assume they mean armed revolt. You know what they told us, politically, that they wanted us to do? Vote. Speak to our legislators about our opinions. Show up at rallies for things we agree with. Vote. Speak to our legislators some more. Fax, call, and meet them in person. They didn’t say, “Only the conservative ones”. They are for American being run by the people, a people that is in close communication with their elected officials like they were during the revolution, and didn’t say a word about which party they hope gets the most votes.
All in all I had a really good time and highly recommend it.
The Shooting Portions
For many months prior to Appleseed (probably even years if I were to search my forum history) I have been struggling with deciding if taking a tube-fed Marlin 60 with Tech Sights and a sling (the only upgrades I have made that affect the rifle’s function) was the best idea. Most people use a detachable mag-fed rifle and there are different considerations for a tube-fed, and also I was seriously concerned about my eyesight. As you will learn, I am not dissatisfied at all with my decision to bring this setup. In fact, I feel like I would have felt significantly less accomplished if I had used a scope, although this is not meant to take anything away from those who do use one, for eyesight or for any other reason.
We performed this Appleseed at Black Creek Shooter’s Association in Mechanicsville VA, 12/6-7. I wore my hunting pants with merino thermals underneath and a wool undershirt along with my heavy coat for the weekend as it was in the 40s and raining on Saturday, and in the 30s and sunny on Sunday. The website says to be prepared for any weather conditions, but it was a welcome relief anyway to see that the firing line was under a pavilion awning for us and our gear. We only got wet while exchanging targets and nobody complained about the weather.
On both mornings you are asked to leave your rifle(s) in the car until after a safety briefing is given. I felt that there was a strong dedication to safety throughout the event. I will get into my tube-fed specific information a little bit when I discuss equipment later on. I did find one thing odd about safety, in that multiple instructors recommended that I cradle the rifle in my right elbow with the butt on the ground while slinging up my left arm (on my knees at the time). I am not sure that I would do this at any other range as I did not prefer the muzzle of my barrel being only a few inches from the right side of my head and pointing up and slightly rearward even with the chamber flag being in. On the other hand, when carrying in the hunting field I am doing the same thing and in that case there is certainly no chamber flag in, so I think my apprehension had more to do with me preferring not to do anything that another shooter at a range firing line could insinuate is unsafe. I know without doubt that what I was doing was safe but if anyone walked up behind my right shoulder which is more likely at a range than in the field, they would have potentially been muzzle swept without me being aware of it.
Other than that they discussed their Appleseed specific rules which concerned safe handling of a firearm and what a “Safe rifle” consisted of. All very good and I was not at any time concerned that someone to my right or left would do something wrong.
We began the morning with a “Redcoat Target”. This consists of 4 different sizes of the standard Appleseed silhouette target, along with “Morgan’s Shingle” a small rectangular target, in a red color scheme. The target sizes correspond to a 100 yard, 200 yard, 300 and 400 yard silhouette and the shingle is approximately the size of a head at 250 yards, to replicate a shooting test given to people, with a small board, trying out for a rifle unit in Virginia during the American Revolution. One shot, two results for those guys; in or out. This was shot with absolutely no instruction other than the previously mentioned safety rules, and no guidance beyond, “Do your best” and instructions to use 13 rounds, 3 for each silhouette and one for the Shingle. I still didn’t know how to use my sling even though I had tried to figure it out from Youtube and forum posts, so I shot it prone with no sling.
I only got all 3 on the silhouette at the 100 yard target, missing a third hit on both the 200 and 300 by about ¼”. It was a great way to do a baseline at the beginning of the day. We were told we would do another one at the end of Saturday, as well as at the beginning and end of Sunday.
They then taught us how to use the sling and to be honest it was much easier to put it on and set it up than I had convinced myself it was prior to this live instruction. I could see the benefit from the very first moment I slung up and again laid in prone position. We fired 5 groups on a paper with 5 small sighter targets, with a little bit of instruction between each. By the time we were done, I was shooting groups that would have 4 shots in a little less than ½” (at 25 yards – I know my rifle is capable of 0.7” at 50, but that was with a 4x scope not the irons) but still having fliers (that I was CALLING- that is an important skill as well I now understand). With the targets used in this course, those groups would be more than plenty good enough. This isn’t about picking a gnat off a piece of paper. At the completion of these 5 groups you have been introduced to the sling usage, the 6 steps to taking a shot (sight picture, sight alignment, breathing, front sight focus, trigger squeeze and follow through), understand natural point of aim and also should have your sights pretty much zeroed in and fully understand the Prone position. I was truly amazed at how well I was shooting relative to what I had started off with and felt like I was making the biggest leaps in shooting I ever had in one day (or month).
Another sheet of paper was used for the seated and the standing position. I felt like I did pretty poorly at seated position. It wasn’t long before we did our first and second timed qualification tests to close out the day. (“AQT” which is Appleseed Qual Test, and based off the Army Qual Test). I scored about 190 in each and was pretty dejected to see how shabby my seated portion was in the 2nd AQT where I scored a 30/50. When I got home that night I told my wife that I wasn’t sure I would be able to pull off the AQT unless I really nailed down seated position and that I wasn’t feeling very confident about it. Now that I am looking at my paperwork back at home, I had scored a 48/50 in the first AQT but that 30/50 in the second was the only one I was remembering that night. In both AQTs I found counting shots something I was just doing terrible at, and in the last portion, throughout the weekend I would attempt to go 3/3/4/4 rounds in the bottom row of 4 prone silhouettes even though it is supposed to be 2/2/3/3 (duh, 10 rounds), run out of ammo on the 4th and realize I had done it again.
The next day’s shooting portion started off with another redcoat, at which I pulled off a 300 yard score and nailed the shingle. I was happy with that for sure. We proceeded right into AQTs. My first one I had some issues (one malfunction and then some issues with my own counting and equipment manipulation, as well as some other frustration I will mention in the Equipment section) but I was pleased to see that I had every shot in the 5 zone in the seated row, along with 2 shots in the “V” of both silhouettes on that row.
We did another AQT and then a pretty good test on NPOA that I think could be included really at any point in the weekend (or even multiple times if time allows). With a partner, in prone position you would find your natural point of aim on a simple aiming point, and then when ready signal your partner to lower a card in front of your sight. After a breathing cycle, fire a shot. Repeat this 5 times (set up NPOA before lowering card again) and see how you group. I had a good-not-great group indicating that I was muscling my rifle and not properly using NPOA. It was also low and right from the target. I think this was partly due to a heavy trigger but that is possibly just a weak excuse. My partner shot one of his tightest groups of the weekend on this exercise I think.
We continued on to do more AQTs. I felt really good about one and handed it in…next thing I know an instructor confirmed what my name was and whispered to me that I had passed with a 217! I was really excited and satisfied at that point. With an increased confidence, I proceeded to score a 222 on the next and final AQT!
The weekend ended with a final redcoat – I score a 300 again and failed to hit the shingle this time. I will be getting a lot of those targets and using those as a warmup at the range from now on and really look forward to the first time I “clean” one with 13 hits. The instructors indicated that a clean redcoat is far more rare than a Rifleman qualification and I believe it.
I was, and am, extremely proud of accomplishing the goal of Rifleman and really learning a LOT of technique. Whereas before I did what I thought was right, now I know what is right and what I need to work on (my goals are to get a clean eyes-closed NPOA group and a clean red coat)
Equipment
As mentioned, I used a Marlin 60, tube fed 22 with Tech Sights. I was able to definitively see my skills improving over the weekend (I had also less than 50 rounds with iron sights in my history before, excluding pistols, so the whole process was pretty new to me) and don’t feel limited by my choices. It seems like most posts out there (including mine) are about equipment and I hope newcomers understand it is NOT a big deal.
I did have a little adjustment to make. For Day 1, the instruction given to me was that I could load my tube during the Prep period after I was satisfied with my sling length, keeping the chamber flag in. This worked out very well for me. On Day 2 with two new instructors who couldn’t make Day 1 there, they asked me to modify this and not load my tube until after End-of-Prep period was called. I really screwed up my first 2 AQTs on Day 2 because I found that I was self-aware of holding up the entire firing line (~20ish people) while loading my tube and I was already full of adrenaline by the time the Fire command was given. I really preferred Day 1 and didn’t feel that what the instruction that day for a tube-fed mag was unsafe, but I followed their rules and obviously succeeded anyway in my goals on Day 2.
A tube-fed mag doesn’t need to do a reload during an AQT when called for by the instructions, but instead manually ejects a round by racking the bolt. I screwed this up 3 or 4 times over the day, causing the round to be lodged in the receiver which was another frustration but I was able to overcome anyway. I did have one failure to eject during normal firing which was I think my first failure with a CCI Standard Velocity (my 60’s most accurate ammo) in 2,000 rounds fired.
Regarding the peep sights, I was VERY concerned as I felt my eyesight was not going to be able to perform the required tasks. I did not find my eyesight to be an issue except in the last AQT of each day; the first one because the rainclouds and low winter sun caused it to be pretty dark and I think I was just fatigued for the last one on Day 2. In both cases the bottom row was intermittently disappearing on me.
Appleseed is NOT a competition event, so I don’t write this to put down anyone, but I was very surprised to see that only one or maybe two other shooters on the line had an iron-sighted rifle out there this weekend. I know that the Appleseed posts used to be heavily influenced by a pro-peep-sight mindset and I think the literature and posts are a lot more welcoming of all optics nowadays. One group of individuals had a couple of clean red coats on the first target shot on Day 1 and one of them scored an amazing 246 on the AQT. Now that takes skill no matter WHAT your equipment is and that was a great accomplishment. I don’t know however that our two rifles were in the same class regarding optics, barrel, stock, and modifications. Hey, if I had a really nice rifle I would not hesitate about bringing it out there. In other words, any rifle is welcome on the line from a sub $200 tube fed with iron sights to a tricked out 10/22 that costs half a paycheck.
Edit to add: I strongly suggest bringing both shaded and clear safety glasses as lighting conditions throughout the event may vary.
History and Politics
The history lessons were really interesting and as they pointed out a few times, frequently covered details that you didn’t learn in school. I enjoyed learning a lot of the stories especially liking Death on a Pale Horse and learning some of the personal details of people involved in the American Rev on both sides of the war. I think there was enough information there that the casual shooter / history buff (which my wife falls into) would find it interesting enough for the price of admission.
I have seen a lot of talk about Appleseed and people reading their literature and thinking that they are insinuating or encouraging certain things about what America is, what is should be, and what it takes to get there. Guess what, guys, they aren’t encouraging an armed insurrection like some yahoos out there think they are reading “between the lines” on their website. Here’s some words that were neither mentioned NOR implied over the weekend: “Republican” “Democrat” “Liberal” “Obama”.
Please, seriously, don’t read on their website about how they want America to become a better place and that part of that is training marksmanship and then assume they mean armed revolt. You know what they told us, politically, that they wanted us to do? Vote. Speak to our legislators about our opinions. Show up at rallies for things we agree with. Vote. Speak to our legislators some more. Fax, call, and meet them in person. They didn’t say, “Only the conservative ones”. They are for American being run by the people, a people that is in close communication with their elected officials like they were during the revolution, and didn’t say a word about which party they hope gets the most votes.
All in all I had a really good time and highly recommend it.
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), I'm always happy to hear good reports from other states as well! Sounds like you got the Appleseed message loud and clear, hope you'll come again and bring friends! 
