Gun lovers leaving Smith & Wesson for dead?

I keep reading these articles about gun sales being down by 50% etc. What they fail to mention is that gun sales nearly doubled during the last panic.

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Not to mention sales at the height were for 2x or more MSRP.

Not a bad time to be in "the business" when the bottom falls out and prices get decent again may be another matter for some but I welcome all the new shooters/voters.

Would have hated to be the guy that paid $80 for a Pmag but once the market floods again, they will be cheap enough to use as drink coasters.

Well I don't know if I count as the average person but a lock will very very very likely sway me from buying a new Smith&Wesson in the future.

The fact that removing it requires modification to the frame will drive me even further away from purchasing a new S&W.

I don't want any useless device that has in the past jammed the firearm during normal operation.

I also don't like holes in the frames of revolvers.

I don't like the potential of legal problems if I would ever choose to remove the worthless crap locking device.

If I want to lock a gun I would put it in a safe or snap a trigger lock on it.

Make a lock that is not dangerous and prone to malfunctioning and I may be able to forget it's there but this thing makes your firearm unreliable.

I got lucky when I bought my 586. Brand new in box, unfired from the 80s. No lock and that's the way I like it. The lock is like a wart.

I buy all of my smiths used because of the lock. Drop the lock and I'd look at a new gun.

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Ditto

Only because they were demanded by several LEO organizations as backups with no locks.

If they can/will make certain models without a lock, for LEO or whoever, then they could ditch it entirely.

I do not own a new S&W due to the lock. I don't want it, some have locked by themselves (BAD on a defensive item) and in the end I'll buy a Ruger rather than pay for something which I can't stand.

I would love one of their R8's but am NOT going to pay $1,000+ for a revolver with that moronic hole in it. I have a key for my CAR, don't want one for my handgun.

So, rant off. I buy older Smiths all the time and will keep doing so. If they want to sell me a new one, ditch the lock like they do for the police.

It's funny you say that, neither of my cars require keys, why should my gun?

The main customers for Smith and Wesson Revolvers are Revolver enthusiasts who might buy several guns in a year, not the average joe blow who buys one gun in a lifetime and would not spend the money on a S&W when he can buy a Taurus for less.

The Revolver Enthusiasts do not like or want the ILS but many will hold their noses and buy a gun with it anyway only to remove the Locking mechanism and put it in the box.

It costs S&W extra money to make the ILS, if they dropped it they would save production costs, and they would gain some customers who are Enthusiasts and hate the ILS.
So I fail to understand why they don't drop the ILS. Fear of Lawsuits is not the reason. The ILS will cause more Lawsuits than it will prevent if it makes any difference at all.

S&W is making money, but not as much as they did durring the Obama Biden gun panic of 2012-2013. The issue is that Smith & Wesson has a covenant on its existing bonds requiring that its debt be no more than 3.25 times earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization (ebitda). IF their sales/ income continues to fall they may have to refinance the Debt and that would mean a higher interest rate as the market for corporate Bonds would view them as being more of a risk. The article did state that Battenfield's annual net income adds $15 million to the bottom line..

And Yes MSN is not a Gun friendly news source.

It is completely irrelevant to me if a gun has a lock or not. So what if you bought a Colt Detective Special for $300 in 73? I bought a house for $20,000. If you convert 300 73 dollars to 2014 dollars you have enough to buy a good Python or dang near any Smith made and those 22 lrs I bought for 0.75 1967 dollars were expensive compared to the ones I get from a scalper for 5 2014 dollars. What I would like to see Smith do is bring back more pencil barrels especially in 3" & 4". An all steel or alloy pencil barreled wheel gun with a cylinder and cylinder window just long enough to take 38 special and a pencil barrel rated for +p would be nice especially with adjustable sights. To make it heavenly it could be in 32 H&R magnum ( forget the 357 and it's wannabe 327). Maybe just scale up the wonderful 317 kitgun to 32SWL?

I don't consider myself a snob of any kind, but at 55, I remember what S&W used to produce. My run of the mill model10-7 probably has a smoother pull than most of their current offerings, and unless I get something in their "Classic" line, I have to settle for rubber grips and phosphor coating, no polished blue and wood grips. A shame in my mind for a firearms icon like S&W.

If S&W gets that military contract to replace the Beretta 92, you can be sure their fortunes will change for the better.

This administration is just bad for business. Maybe once the Republicans get in the country will get back on it's feet.
But it's going to take 20 years even if they make the right moves. And we can never pay back the trillions "they" borrowed, for the bailout. That is "lost money. Just like we never got paid for the money we lent the allies during ww2, it's going to end up just becoming part of history. When the next administration realizes, "if they haven't already" that we cannot afford to subsidize an entire secondary economy for lazy people, who have a sense of entitlement, and no respect for our laws, there will be riots breaking out in most major city's, in the country. That should stimulate gun sales on all fronts
Perhaps this is his parting gift, as he seems to be childish in his ability to not be able to understand that he is indeed wrong, and even the people closest to him, are abandoning ship.
I have no doubt that much of his policy's will be overturned and he may be sued and brought up on charges once he is out, as it is unpopular to censure a sitting President. What he has done is not only illegal, but has caused irreparable damage to the country.
But have no doubt, we will be in for a rocky ride. Maybe then we will find that he never was a citizen of this Country in the first place.
Trump may be a big mouth , but he's not stupid.

S&W made the purchase for several reasons, at least one of them is... odd

Saving money, having cash on hand is good, right? Wrong, old timer. That thinking is so pre-Bernanke/Yeltsin. Believe it or not, banks are requesting/forcing companies to take their cash the hell out of their accounts so the banks aren't facing US Fed penalties for having it on hand. http://www.wsj.com/articles/banks-u...-elsewhere-or-be-slapped-with-fees-1418003852

So, among other business reasons, S&W is taking the cash from the latest orgy of gun sales (tip of the hat to Obama, Pelosi, and Reid: the greatest gun popularizers and sellers in recent history), along with a bit of debt to complete the purchase, into an investment instead of sitting on cash and paying banking penalties.

One constant in business is that there are no constants. The only predictable thing is that markets change in unpredictable ways.

Maybe once the Republicans get in the country will get back on it's feet.

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That's a good one. You should take your act on the road.

This is the road.
The very people who are against guns, have created a bigger need for them than if they had done nothing.

I have owned and carried S&W revolvers for going on three decades. Until the high capacity 9 's came in it was a faithful companion. I find the ironny that the IL has caused so much concern. I carry a 629 when I am in the back country. It is either in my hand or in it's holster. Neither loation can I see the safety. I think one of the issues missing is that when the weopon is put away and little johnny is in where he shouldn't be , the lock may prevent a tragedy that happens more frequently than we like to admit. If that and MIM prevents you from buying a firearm that is your progative. but the logic is faulty at best.

george burns said:

This administration is just bad for business. Maybe once the Republicans get in the country will get back on it's feet.
But it's going to take 20 years even if they make the right moves. And we can never pay back the trillions "they" borrowed, for the bailout. That is "lost money. Just like we never got paid for the money we lent the allies during ww2, it's going to end up just becoming part of history. When the next administration realizes, "if they haven't already" that we cannot afford to subsidize an entire secondary economy for lazy people, who have a sense of entitlement, and no respect for our laws, there will be riots breaking out in most major city's, in the country. That should stimulate gun sales on all fronts
Perhaps this is his parting gift, as he seems to be childish in his ability to not be able to understand that he is indeed wrong, and even the people closest to him, are abandoning ship.
I have no doubt that much of his policy's will be overturned and he may be sued and brought up on charges once he is out, as it is unpopular to censure a sitting President. What he has done is not only illegal, but has caused irreparable damage to the country.
But have no doubt, we will be in for a rocky ride. Maybe then we will find that he never was a citizen of this Country in the first place.
Trump may be a big mouth , but he's not stupid.

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Wow! It was the previous Republican presidential administration that knocked the nation off its feet and yet somehow there are people who think/hope a change to a Republican dominated legislature will put the nation back on its feet. Amazing how some people never rethink their convictions despite repeated examples of failure and how hope springs eternally from those engaged in magical thinking. Neither the Republicans or the Democrats can put the nation back on its feet without engaging in compromise and cooperation. You are right, Trump is not stupid. He is merely wrong about what is good for the country and very good at knowing how to exploit the system for his own and his peer's benefit at the expense of the country.

Gun lovers leaving S&W for dead? You are obviously out of touch with reality if you think that is happening.

I see a lot of new S&W's M&P pistol and rifles at the range I shoot at. Maybe folks aren't buying as many revolvers?

It find it funny that people use the IL or MIM as a reason for not buying a quality firearm. If you dont like them fine people and they have have heard of failures . Have they expierienced them themselves NO. Are pre MIM guns superior NO. They indicate that they wont pay the price fine. Blaming the gun because you are cheap should not cause the disrespect for the weapons.

I have both types and they work just fine. I carry mine in the back country were it is in my hand or in a holster. In either location I can't see the lock.

I also own several older (pre-ILS) S&Ws; zero with the lock. When in the holster or in the hand, I can't see the lock, either. That doesn't mean that, should I drop the revolver or should something strike it at the right angle, the ILS won't spontaneously engage.

I favor revolvers over semiautos for their boring reliability. The ILS is an unnecessary complexity that reduces that reliability. Might as well carry a semi.

To be honest, I'm also disappointed in the actions of the recent S&Ws I've checked out at the shop where I work.

Conspiracy time.

Maybe some of the management of S&W are trying to drive down the stock value to make it easier for them to absorb more shares for themselves*.

And the rubes** who understanding of business ends at the final credits of Wallstreet are eating it up.

*Yes I, know this is illegal.

**I, pretty much fall into this category as I, wall down the boardwalk with a balloon, and a chalk mark on my back.