Gonna party like it's 1899

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lowercase

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My LGS has a display case of small, old revolvers marked as "non-functioning" guns. Some function, and some don't. They just aren't tested, and the gun store doesn't want to sell them as functioning firearms.

They are forlorn examples of what used to be called "suicide specials". Small, inexpensive guns chambered for modest calibers such as .32 S&W.

A lot of these guns are in bad shape with rust, grime, missing parts, chipped grips, and awful-looking improvised repairs. There's always a guy at every gun show with a table full of these sad-looking little relics.

Anyway, curiosity got the best of me, and I played around with these guns until I found a couple that functioned correctly, and didn't look too bad. I grabbed a couple for 50 bucks each to take home and clean up. I guess that not every purchase has to make a lot of sense. :D

First gun is a Harrington & Richardson "The American Double Action". The gun is a .32 S&W, but the caliber isn't marked anywhere, so from my research, it is one of the early ones, and was made between 1895 and 1904-ish.

Second gun is a Hopkins & Allen Model of 1887 with folding hammer. It is also a .32 S&W and I believe is from probably the early 1890s.

They took a LOT of cleaning, but I got everything clean, freed up, and moving a ton better. I also polished them both up with Flitz and it really helped the appearance.

Here are the pics of these two humble little revolvers:

F1LuhH.jpg


ogbaqA.jpg


eOLH6g.jpg
 
Very cool little guns. I have an old Iver Johnson my great uncle gave me in .32. I've only shot it a few times but it locks up decently and is surprisingly accurate considering it has no rifling left.

He called it a "bar gun" because they were commonly carried (and used) in bars in rivertowns all around. I actually like it a lot and have been looking for a solid example of a Smith and Wesson brand .32. If I can find a good one I'll likely clean it up and reload for it. Certainly better than a .22 if you need a small pocket gun.

HB
 
Uh, you know these are blackpowder ctg. handguns, right? Shoot smokeless and they will likely 'grenade'.
 
I notice that the cylinder on the H&R is considerably longer than the cylinder on the H&A. It was probably also made as a 5-shot 38 S&W, but I wonder if it would take the old 32 H&R round, which was like a pre-32 S&W Long? All I remember about it was that it had a longer case than 32 S&W and a higher velocity, but used the same 88 grain bullet.

It's just idle speculation. At any rate, you've made them look really good, and the folding hammer on the H&A is a neat feature!
 
lowercase

Nice job of rescuing a couple of old timers! You did a fine job of cleaning them up, especially the H&A Model of 1887.
 
That is a cool pair.

LOWERCASE, I'd like to see the hammer spur extended on the H&A. Do you have a photo of that?

Kudos on the thread title, though I don't know that the crimson crooner would approve.:D

Todd.
 
Nice! I have several H&R that I shoot and enjoy.

And that is a great thread title. :)
 
Very neat.

I do wonder about the usual Internet Cautions about "black powder models."
I bet a lot of them got shot with smokeless as soon as it was readily available. But not shot a whole lot with anything.
 
On the ADA, I had one in 38sw. With the octagon barrel yours is of the earliest vintage, and in that condition is actually of interest to the H&R collectors. I would look into moving that one on to someone who would appreciate it with his wallet...please do yourself a favor and never take it apart. As simple as it is it makes reassembly of a ruger mk1 look easy. And yes it should be 32s&w which is a mouse gun caliber but it can pack a wallop. With black or imitation black reloads you can have a whole lot of fun...I did until I sold my 38sw for $125
 
For old junk guns those both look darn nice.

If the barrels are in nice shape I'd be loading up some light loads for them and shooting the things. Even with smokeless if the charge levels are kept down to the lower pressure starting loads these things would be fine.

I'm sort of thinking that the H&R is possibly chambered for their .32H&R too. If you measure to the throat transition step it should confirm if this is the case or not.
 
If you mean 32 H&R magnum, isn't that from around 1987?

Please forgive me if I am misunderstanding.
 
No, Tallball, there was a 19th century .32 H&R round that actually predates the .32 S&W Long. I suspect most people who still had the guns by the turn of the century were shooting .32 S&W Long in them. The ammo is not in the 1901 Sears catalog. It was similar to the .32 Merwin & Hulbert except the M&H had a longer OAL to support their trick selective unloading system.
 
If you mean 32 H&R magnum, isn't that from around 1987?

Please forgive me if I am misunderstanding.
Tallball, H&R had a 32 cartridge under its own name back in the 1880's or 1890's, too. So did a couple of other manufacturers, like Merwin & Hulbert. They were all lengthened versions of 32 S&W, and they all faded out fast when 32 S&W Long showed up.

PS - Ninjaed by Jim Watson!
 
I read up on modern .32 S&W ammo, and it's some pretty weak stuff. I also figured that people "back in the day" who carried these little guns and probably bought ammo at the local drugstore likely didn't worry too much about the black powder vs smokeless debate. I'm figuring that a LOT of these turn-of-the-century guns got shot with whatever was available.

I decided to go ahead and take the two guns to the range and test them out.

The guns both ran just fine. The .32 ammo I had was 85-grain Magtech LRN and was some extremely soft-shooting stuff. I think I've had cap guns with more "oomph" than this stuff seemed to have.

In any case, they were fun little shooters, and I ran a few cylinders through each one. One thing that somehow escaped me is that the H&R is a 6-shooter. I got it in my head that they both held 5 shots, and only realized differently at the range. The cylinder on the H&R is definitely long enough for a .32 Long, so it may very well have been chambered for a now-defunct .32 round with similar dimensions to the slightly more modern .32 Long.

I shot these two guns at close range, because I figured that they were intended as close-up defensive weapons, and also that the sights were very small and nearly useless. Both guns were shot at a range of 7 feet, which was the first marked increment at my local range.

Here's a pic of a couple targets with 5 and 6 round (one cylinder each) groupings.

zd9vBF.jpg
 
FWIW, that H&A is a lot better gun and better made than the H&R.

I repaired a lot of those old guns and test fired them with smokeless powder commercial ammo. None ever blew up. None. They do tend to shoot loose, but I suspect they would shoot loose with any ammunition; with the exception of S&W, most just were not made for long term use.

Jim
 
Yep, H&A is better, plus it's a top break and is a hell of a lot easier to unload and reload. If nothing else that part of it alone makes it more desirable as a shooter.
 
lowercase

Those are still pretty decent groups even if they were shot at 7 feet. That H&A is really quite a capable performer.
 
Mine American Double Action revolver is a surprising good shooter also.

lowercase,

Just curious how rough is the bore on yours? Mine shows a lot of machine marks. I kind of figure seeing how the gun doesn't have a loading gate and the free spinning cylinder they didn't put a lot of work into how smooth the bore is.
 
I have a H&A Police Positive Safety in a 38 short /or 38 New Police. A 38 S&W will chamber up in it, but the bullet is very close to the end of the cylinder, so I don't use the 38 S&W cartridge.
As far as these cartridge being black powder, when they came out that is probably what was available. But later on as smokeless powder developed many of them utilized smokeless without to any trouble. Many of the firearms manufactured in that era were designed and manufactured with chrome nickel steel for smokeless powder. That notation is stamped on many of the rifle barrels, but not any pistol barrels.
The ammo manufacturers in the pre-panic past have made limited runs on some of the old ammo. On several occasions I have purchased 38 short and 38 new police for my revolver. I doubt they would have done that if there was a chance of damaging the weapon or the shooter.
Obsolete cartridges can be found on-line at Gad Cartridges.com they have an extensive list of pistol and rifle cartridges.
A little common sense goes along ways when using these old guns.
 
If the H&R guns are marked with the the cartridge designation on the side of the barrel. they are ones that were made to shoot smokeless powder. I have an H&R Model 06 which has the cartridge designation that looks identical to your H&R that I shoot with smokeless loads. I also have a Hopkins & Allen and an Iver Johnson breaktop that look like yours which are black powder guns and that is what I shoot through them.
 
Mine American Double Action revolver is a surprising good shooter also.

lowercase,

Just curious how rough is the bore on yours? Mine shows a lot of machine marks. I kind of figure seeing how the gun doesn't have a loading gate and the free spinning cylinder they didn't put a lot of work into how smooth the bore is.
BSA1

Yep, mine has machine marks in the barrel, too.
 
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