A House Divided

AR's cause deaths, that is fact.

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That's simple hogwash. No gun "causes death."

But AR's DO NOT prevent more deaths than they cause.

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Not even close to true. AR-15s are now the starting to overtake shotguns as the most popular type of firearm for home defense. Light, easy to maneuver, light recoil, very effective, and lower penetration of walls so produce less risk to neighbors.

Now neither you nor I can prove how many were actually used last year to defend someone's life, but you can't prove that w,xyz handguns were either. SO all you have to back up your claim is your own ignorance.

Funny, that's what YOU accused US of before.

Obama has stated he admires Australia gun regulation, which was.....confiscation.

Your ignorance astounds me

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No yours does.

First of all, you make it sound like it was a total "confiscation" but you fail to mention it was only certain types of firearms.

They did not go door to door asking people to turn in their guns, they did not raid people's homes and take their guns.

The law mainly banned high powered guns, and semi automatic rifles and shotguns.

Do you want to know why Obama admired it?

BECAUSE IT WORKED!

The National Firearms Agreement -- reached among the political parties less than two weeks after a gunman killed 35 people and injured 23 at a Tasmanian seaside resort -- cut firearm homicide by 59% over the next two decades and firearms suicide by 74%, the report showed.

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...finding that the firearm homicide rate fell by 59 percent, and the firearm suicide rate fell by 65 percent, in the decade after the law was introduced, without a parallel increase in non-firearm homicides and suicides. That provides strong circumstantial evidence for the law's effectiveness

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Your argument of "take the AR's away and they would killed them by another means" fails.


I didn't really know how thick skulled people could be until I came here.

I've shown numerous facts proving a AR ban works, I've quoted multiple presidents who agreed to one.

Over 50% of the US population agrees to one.

Yet people still think it's ok to own a gun that can mow down dozens of people.

I'm sure the parents of the kids who were gunned down in Sandy Hook would just love to hear you are in support of said weapons.


Tell ya what, why don't you phone up the parents of the Sandy Hook Victims, and tell them "you know that weapon that mowed your kid down? I'm in full support of it", and just see what they think of you.

When has a passionate debate on a clash of ideologies ever resulted in one side agreeing with the other? When you push the “reset button”, what do you achieve? When you attempt to educate an ignorant man, at what point do you conclude he’s incorrigible?

I sometimes vision myself sitting in a room listening to our founding fathers as they craft the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I am in awe of their achievement. These documents were to be the glue that would hold us together. As a Republic, wise men would be elected to ensure our rights would be upheld; they were to keep our house in order. It seems so simple but freedom is never simple.

I have enjoyed this thread because it allows one to understand how others think. So it is important to allow everyone the opportunity to express their views especially those with whom you disagree. It has provided me the wisdom to become more tolerant. When you are involved in a war that will never end, you must learn how to sleep with the enemy. Compliments to the THR for setting the rules of engagement.

How are we supposed to compromise with that? They only confiscate some of our guns?

I read through about 6 posts here and am shocked that yall are still arguing with such ignorance.

As soon as he said "Obama supports the 2nd Amendment..." the discussion should have ended.


In the words of Ron White, "You can't fix stupid."

Thirty ought six - this particular argument that the risk outweighs the benefit is specious.

There are (conservatively) something upward of 3 million AR type rifles in homes across the U.S. There are likely a couple of million AK type rifles. And pile on the niche rifles, like HKs and clones, etc. etc.

The facts are that such firearms are useful for - and have been used for - self defense. They are entirely applicable for the common defense.

I understand you are falling back on an emotional argument, but the data is just not backing you up.

I'm not saying give up your position if that's what you truly believe ... but you really need to find a new line of argument in the face of facts.

thirty-ought-six said:

I strongly feel if one of your kids was a victim of Sandy Hook, or your best friend was killed in a drive-by from a AR, your view would change instantly.

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wrong !!! one of my 3 sons was killed in a motorcycle accident I don't blame the Bike or the light pole , so you may not want to hear this from someone that has lost a son , but Dead is Dead , so could you please get off the graves of those kids , and don't ever BET how a parent that has lost a kid would feel ,

guns don't kill people , , people kill , sometimes with cars , knives , hammers , ect ect

Ok, let's set everything aside for a moment and look at facts. These are not "maybe" facts, or "could be" facts, but undeniable facts.

Fact: There has been over 45 mass shootings since 1994.

Fact: There is no current ban on Assault Rifles.

Fact: In the 10 years after Australia banned AR's, there were ZERO mass shootings.

Yes, mass shootings have occurred in Australia since 1996, but not until 2006.

If the US enacted the same law in 1996, I'm sure there would of been mass shootings, but not nearly as many.

Seven pages of reasonable men arguing with one man whose only interest is to erect obvious straw-man arguments as quickly as he can.

What a waste of time.