CZ75B Decision?

Jim NE said:

I love my CZ decockers. I also have a compact (with a safety) and that's nice, too. I guess I think the decocker as a safety device is somewhat more safe than a manual safety.

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Only during the decocking process...

If you're at the range and are ready to leave, you can unload either gun by dropping the mag and racking the slide (with your fingers away from the trigger) to empty the chamber. If you don't want to empty the weapon but the chamber is loaded and the gun is cocked, you can either flip up the safety lever or decock the gun, depending on the version in your hand. Both versions of the gun are equally safe in that state of readiness.

The decocker mechanism makes the decocking process feel more safe and may actually be safer if the shooter hasn't learned to safely manually decock a gun with a chambered round. Over the years I've seen far more problems and safety risks from people drawing and firing from the holster than I've seen due to accidental discharges while decocking. Decocking accidents always seem to be a greater concern and are mentioned more often in forum discussions. (Not everybody practices presentations from the holster at the range; some ranges won't allow it -- arguably because of the risk to others.)

The only time the safety lever on a CZ works (or matters) is when the hammer is fully cocked. If the hammer is down (either all the way, or to the "half-cock" notch) the safety is inoperable, but both versions of the gun are equally safe in that state of readiness.

Some might argue that the safety-equipped model is MORE SAFE at that point, because pulling the trigger won't make it fire unless you push down the safety lever first. The decocker versions can be fired when decocked, but others would argue that an ACCIDENTAL (or negligent) DISCHARGE at that point, while possible, isn't very likely -- as the trigger has to travel pretty far for the gun to fire, and it would be hard to do THAT accidentally. Because both guns have firing pin blocks, neither will fire unless the trigger is pulled fully to the rear. Dropping it won't make it fire, having it hit with great force won't make it fire.

It's a toss up of pros and cons, and people buy the version with which they're most comfortable. What they're comfortable with tends to change over time.

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With my CZ 75 compact empty, I've practiced decocking in a manner that feels pretty secure: a two handed technique where I pinch the round part of the hammer firmly with my thumb and index finger of my left hand (muzzle pointed down) then release the trigger (right hand) and lower the hammer slowly to half cock. Has a lot of control. Just don't know how well I'd do in a stress situation. I'd never try to decock a loaded semi-auto one handed, unless forced to.

I like the way CZ decockers work. Hated the way old Ruger decockers worked, though I like Rugers generally.

I always thought "cocked and locked" sounded dangerous on 1911's...until I finally got a 1911. The grip safety gives me a greater feeling of security. I still don't like the "cocked and locked" on CZ's, though (much as I love the guns and my compact.) The decocker on my CZ 40 P and 75 BD make me feel more secure.

Jim NE said:

With my CZ 75 compact *empty*, I've practiced decocking in a manner that feels pretty secure: a two handed technique where I pinch the round part of the hammer firmly with my thumb and index finger of my left hand (muzzle pointed down) then release the trigger (right hand) and lower the hammer slowly to half cock. Has a lot of control. Just don't know how well I'd do in a stress situation. I'd never try to decock a loaded semi-auto one handed, unless forced to.

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I added the underlining, above...

If it's really a stressful situation, and there is no obvious immediate danger, there's probably going to be an LEO coming to disarm you. Then you simply engage the safety and lay the weapon on the ground -- Chances are you'll be instructed to do just that, or something similar.

Otherwise, the safest thing to do, if you're really nervous, stressed out, etc., but still feel the need to make the gun "safe," is to engage the safety and holster your weapon. If your hands are shaking, as they might be, it's far easier to flip on the safety than manually decock the weapon.

Later, when the stress level has fallen farther you can 1) decock the gun as you described above, or 2) clear the weapon by dropping the mag and racking the slide (with you fingers not in the trigger guard area).

Good points, Walt.

I have several CZ pistols from the rami to a full sized single action, the one i enjoy shooting the most is the which ever one is in my hand at there's time. I carry the P01 because it has decocker and because of it's compact size.

I just don't understand the obsession with some about demanding a de-cocker on a pistol. Manually de-cocking a firearm is a basic action. It is as safe as you make it, and most pistols have firing pin blocks anyway, as does the CZ. It seems like a security blanket for some.

New shooters? Young people with little firearm experience, or knowledge? What the heck?

I own plenty withou a decocker and am less than obsessed. CZ has done the decocker "right" IMO with ergonomic, useful placement as well as a first shot DA that is significantly lighter than full DA. For me, every time a trigger is pressed and hammer lowered on a live round, an opportunity for an accident arises. I'm not new to guns. Im not an enthusiastic 20-yo fascinated by video game warfare.... I simply find the decocker versions preferable.

Manually de-cocking a firearm is a basic action. It is as safe as you make it, and most pistols have firing pin blocks anyway, as does the CZ.

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Yes, but manually decocking requires pulling the trigger. You know that action disables the firing pin block, right?

Manually de-cocking a firearm is a basic action. It is as safe as you make it, and most pistols have firing pin blocks anyway, as does the CZ. It seems like a security blanket for some.

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Maybe it is a security blanket, maybe it isn't -- but it's a nice feature. And, if it makes the shooter more comfortable, so much the better. I agree, however, that manually decocking a handgun (be it semi-auto or revolver) is a basic gun-handling skill and one that all of us should be able to do, if necessary, without risk to ourselves or others.

While I personally don't like decockers that doesn't mean I wouldn't use one if the gun also offered an easy-to-use (not easy to screw up) single-action, cocked & locked start. I suspect that the mechanism(s) needed to offer both an easy, convenient "SA" start AND a dococker in the same gun would be complicated. There are a few guns that can do offer both, and doing a SA start from some of ones I've tried is not like using a 1911 or CZ-pattern gun. (That said, I can thumb-cock some decocker-equipped guns pretty easily, too, if time isn't a critical factor -- and do that frequently with my decocker-equpped Sphinx SDP.)

For me the "practical cost" of using the decocker feature -- a forced double-action start rather than single-action start -- makes that type of gun less attractive, but not everybody feels that way. It's their money and their gun, and after the first shot, it's all the same.

Nothing against decockers. I carry a CZ PCR, but only because that is the only way it comes. I would prefer a safety version, but again it really is no big deal to have the decocker, and the trigger on the PCR is excellent.

Since I carry Glocks for work, I keep the DA first shot guns as carry pieces and the cocked and locked manual safety ones for range and competition. Works for me. I really like my BD, good choice.

I got both B and BD, and I like them both.

When de-cocking the CZ 75B with a manual safety (or the Browning Hi-Power and probably many others) grab the hammer in such a manner that your finger would get pinched if the hammer slips out of your grasp. When you pull the trigger as soon as the hammer starts to fall release the trigger completely that way it is impossible for the hammer to strike the firing pin. Then readjust your grip on the hammer and let it down.

Why would you want to lower the hammer on a Hi Power? I assume we're talking about carrying a standard 75B in DA, but that's not a good idea on a Hi Power being SAO. I've carried a Hi Power in the past, best to keep it cocked and locked as designed.

Lowering the hammer on a live round is an excellent way to put a hole in the floor.

Lowering the hammer on a live round is an excellent way to put a hole in the floor.

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Only if your not using the safety between your ears.

I've carried a Hi Power in the past, best to keep it cocked and locked as designed.

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The Hi Power has commonly been carried cocked and locked, true, especially in recent decades. It wasn't designed to be carried that way. My owners manual recommends carrying with the hammer down, whether or not a round is chambered.

GeneS said:

The Hi Power has commonly been carried cocked and locked, true, especially in recent decades. It wasn't designed to be carried that way. My owners manual recommends carrying with the hammer down, whether or not a round is chambered.

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Owner's manuals are notoriously FALSE to protect from liability and law suits. Carrying a gun not ready to fire is not wise IMHO, but do what is comfortable for you, and your level of training.

Owner's manuals are notoriously FALSE to protect from liability and law suits

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So, the manual is FALSE by recommending carrying in a condition the pistol was not intended for? Okay. Don't see how that protects from lawsuits.

I believe if it were originally meant to be carried cocked and locked, it wouldn't have that big hammer and that tiny safety. I hope you don't take me wrong. i don't mean to say C&L carriy is not a good way or the best way even. I think I've just read too many times the revisionist history that Hi Powers and 1911's were originally designed to be primally carried cocked and locked.

GeneS said:

So, the manual is FALSE by recommending carrying in a condition the pistol was not intended for? Okay. Don't see how that protects from lawsuits.

I believe if it were originally meant to be carried cocked and locked, it wouldn't have that big hammer and that tiny safety. I hope you don't take me wrong. i don't mean to say C&L carriy is not a good way or the best way even. I think I've just read too many times the revisionist history that Hi Powers and 1911's were originally designed to be primally carried cocked and locked.

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Actually, in this instance I think you are correct. However, today with many pistols the manuals are written to avoid liability, and often don't recommend a round in the chamber. Using the 1911, and BHP was probably a bad example by me.

Pilot, I concur how, um, careful owners manuals are worded. Colt manuals almost make it sound too dangerous to load the firearm at all.

To the OP, sorry that I have contributed somewhat helping this thread drift. I am a fan of the CZ 75 series in all of it's variations. Each type has it's plusses. The decocker models seem to be getting more popular all the time.

Good grief, there may be a myriad of reasons to lower the hammer on a live round and if you need to do it, do it the best possible way. The key is once the hammer breaks, release the trigger and then let the hammer go down. If you will release the trigger there is no way it can cause the firing pin to strike the primer. Maybe I am over reacting, but good grief.

p.s. I can't teach you all risk assessment. But there are times when the risk of shooting a hole in the floor is worth taking, as well there are times when the risks associated with cocked and locked are worth taking, as well as the risks of many other scenarios. Good grief. If you can't judge when to take a risk or not to take a risk then you need to learn how to make judgements.

I carry my CZ cocked and locked so it doesn't matter. Hammer is never down on a live round 95% of the time.