Rate the .223 cartridge
- Thread starter BigBore45
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Somewhat of a loaded question. In my mind an ethical kill is a fast clean kill which means shot placement and proper penetration. If a 223 means a small framed person or a child can make dime size shots at 100 yards over a 5" circle with a larger caliber then I say yes more then enough.
earlthegoat2
Member
It can take all of them and has. It is legal to use in many states for all the game listed for a reason.
Jackal
Member
A 77gr .223 bullet is almost as effective as an 80gr .243 projectile.
newfalguy101
Member
No experience with Antelope or boar, however as Antelope are generally smaller than deer, I voted the first 3, and it would probably kill a boar also, just absolutely no knowledge to draw on
redbullitt
Member
Kills well for me as long as I hit right and the bullet stays together.
Personally I have had deer and coyote drop with it, and I would not hesitate to take a good shot on the other animals either.
Personally I have had deer and coyote drop with it, and I would not hesitate to take a good shot on the other animals either.
der Teufel
Member
NONE
Given that the poll states one is shooting at a range of 300 yards, I say NONE OF THE ABOVE.
Given that the poll states one is shooting at a range of 300 yards, I say NONE OF THE ABOVE.
TimSr
Member
300 yards? You should have put groundhog as #1 in the poll.
At 200 yards or less, all of the above
At 300 yards or more, Coyote only from your list.
I wouldn't use one on anything larger than deer or antelope at any range, but within it's limited range it'll work on game of that size as well as anything with proper bullets.
At 300 yards or more, Coyote only from your list.
I wouldn't use one on anything larger than deer or antelope at any range, but within it's limited range it'll work on game of that size as well as anything with proper bullets.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
I know from experience about coyotes. 
I don't see the .223 as more than a 100-yard, maybe 150, cartridge for larger game. Wouldn't be my choice for any open-country hunting, anyway.
I don't see the .223 as more than a 100-yard, maybe 150, cartridge for larger game. Wouldn't be my choice for any open-country hunting, anyway.
Sunray
Member
It ain't the cartridge. It's the bullet. However, the .223 isn't a 300 yard deer cartridge.
Hornady is busy marketing a 60 GR InterLock SP loaded specifically for deer. 572 ft/lbs. of energy at 300. Not enough. 988 ft/lbs. at 100. Barely adequate for deer. At least any deer up this way. Might do for those little Texas deer.
Drops 7.80" from 200 to 300 too. Poor ballistics. Likely miss a coyote altogether at 300.
Hornady is busy marketing a 60 GR InterLock SP loaded specifically for deer. 572 ft/lbs. of energy at 300. Not enough. 988 ft/lbs. at 100. Barely adequate for deer. At least any deer up this way. Might do for those little Texas deer.
Drops 7.80" from 200 to 300 too. Poor ballistics. Likely miss a coyote altogether at 300.
Well i started this poll for a friend really, he is upset that a hunting place we picked to go to will not let him shoot at hogs with the .223. Quite the deal since i agree it is not adequate in that arrangement. He is going to be on land he does not know and hunting a new animal. so shots are not going to be like they are at paper back home. #2 i loaded some 64 gr. powder points for him about .5 gr above max and they were cooking out of his ar-15, i went and watched him shoot a deer ( big Kansas doe) and to his surprise it didn't drop like the trusty 30-06 he used in the past. It ran about 100 yards and died. shot was good middle lungs a bit high. then the second one i watched him shoot with the .223 was a front shoulder shot at 150-175 yards, thank god for the bone fragments going into the heart, not enough mph or weight on that one, ran about 75-100 yards. not ethical to me. i put them down with a .308 and out of a lot of deer ( 25+) never had one go past 50 yards, in fact most do not move 5 feet.
d2wing
Member
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I have had dramatic kills on 200 plus lb buck with the .223 with 55 gr soft point bullets. The key is the right bullet for the job. I do not think a few more grains is as important as more fps for the bullet to expand and expend it's energy correctly. My results have born that out. But 300 yards is a long shot for a 223 on deer. With my 20 inch rifle I would consider it if I had a 100% chance of shot placement. That is why I switched to a 7-08 for deer.
I'm sorry but i cannot help but say this: i can take all of these animals with a 22Mag with the right bullet in the correct spot. or an elephant with a .223 with the right bullet in the right spot.
how is that exactly? 77gr. smaller around bullet at 2700FPS or a 80 grain bigger around bullet at 3300 fps?
TKO factor for 77gr .223= 1246 Lbs of energy
29 on momentum
6 on Tk factor
TKO factor for 80 gr .243= 1934 lbs of energy
37 momentum
9 tk factor
I just know if a miss read in distance or wind is made, the .223 will not give you any room for error on large game. I think 2 things are important here #1 i do not think a .243 is even a Kansas buck gun passed 75 yards for an ethical kill in my terms of ethical. #2 i respect opinion and i believe everyone that says a .223 has taken large game without a problem.
The deer I've killed reported that it was certainly sufficient and humane when shooting 64 gr Fusions. Or, at least, they would have...if deer could talk, and they weren't dead. Not talking tiny Alabama deer either, we're talking 200 lb South Dakota bucks. I'm at 100% success using the .223 at ranges of under 150 yards, and have never had the need nor desire to kill one further away. Every rifle/cartridge/shooter combination has its limitations. Its about understanding them, realizing them,, and hunting *within* in them instead of trying to stretch *beyond* them. Used as such, the .223 is well capable of harvesting every animal on your list, albeit NOT at 300 yards.
Patocazador
Member
I don't like coyotes (who does?). Therefore, if a bullet doesn't perform properly, and a coyote gets away or is 'blown up' by it, I don't worry. Antelope and deer are another story. NO on those game animals.
The problem with .223 isn't so much the diameter but the bullets used in commercial ammo. Varmint bullets or FMJ. Neither is adequate for the last 3 on the list.
The problem with .223 isn't so much the diameter but the bullets used in commercial ammo. Varmint bullets or FMJ. Neither is adequate for the last 3 on the list.
An 80 gr 243 bullet at 3300 fps is a short stubby bullet that will expand quickly and give poor penetration on larger game.
The 77 gr 223 bullet is a longer, tougher bullet that will expand much slower and penetrate MUCH deeper in large game.
Bullet weight speed, or energy don't kill stuff. Penetration, and shot placement do. The 80 gr 243 bullet is a varmint bullet, the 77 gr 223 is a big game bullet. Start shooting varmint bullets in a 30-06 and you'll see failures.
When loaded with varmint bullets I agree. When loaded with 95-105 gr big game bullets a 243 is darn near perfect for any deer at any range anyone is capable of making hits. It is an acceptable elk load.
Elk, 688 yards, 243, 105 gr bullet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY0w1c-gf18
We have all been sold on much bigger guns than any of us really need for decades. Partly because hunters are figuring it out, and partly because of better bullets and loads today that is changing.
Sav .250
Member
May or may not be a legal big game caliber in all states.
moxie
Member
Depends on the bullet and the range. 300 yards is pushing it.
FWIW, my buddy took a 5X5 elk in Colorado last Oct. with a .243.
FWIW, my buddy took a 5X5 elk in Colorado last Oct. with a .243.
Jason_W
Member
Looking at it mathematically: Remington .223 "Hog Hammer" ammo is topped with a 62 grain Barnes TSX bullet and has an advertised MV of 3100 f/s (figures vary depending on barrel length, of course). If one does get that 3100 f/s MV, that bullet still has 1004 ft-lbs of energy at 120 yards. 1000 ft/lbs at impact is the the traditional minimum energy figure for whitetail.
Personally, I would be OK with the .223 in situations where ranges were most likely going to be under that at which bullet energy drops below 1000 ft. lbs. and where I would be more likely to take a little time to pick my shots (ambush hunting from a concealed location).
I would feel handicapped with it in very open terrain or while stalking/still hunting where "perfect" shots are unlikely.
Personally, I would be OK with the .223 in situations where ranges were most likely going to be under that at which bullet energy drops below 1000 ft. lbs. and where I would be more likely to take a little time to pick my shots (ambush hunting from a concealed location).
I would feel handicapped with it in very open terrain or while stalking/still hunting where "perfect" shots are unlikely.
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