Lionheart LH9 Decock Question

The hammer is HINGED. Flipping it forward doesn't DECOCK the mechanism -- it just lowers the top half of the hammer.

You would decock the LH9 or the similar DAEWOO DP51 the same way you decock any DA/SA handgun that isn't equipped with a decocker lever. The process can be performed with the gun loaded or unloaded: Point the weapon in a safe direction and use your offhand to grasp or control the hammer (or put the offhand thumb between the hammer and the firing pin) while you pull the trigger. You may also be able to use your strong hand thumb to control the hammer while it drops, as you're pulling the trigger.

It's not hard to do, and decocking any handgun is a basic gun-handling skill.

Note, however, that unless you're getting ready to field strip the weapon, there's no compelling reason to decock the gun -- as the SAFETY functions in any of the three action/trigger modes. Hammer down in the what some call the Double-Action + mode, when the safety is on, is just as safe as a decocked weapon: with either situation it takes a conscious act on the part of the gun handler to do something to make it fire.

The Lionheart is an updated Daewoo DP51, made by Daewoo.

People are saying there are TWO VERSIONS of double-action with this gun:

The first version, the traditional version, should NOT be an issue, as the trigger is just exactly like a Beretta or SIG when starting out. The hammer is fully decocked, and the safety is, in effect redundant.

The second version -- the one causing your concern -- is NOT really DA. It is, in effect a SA mode, but with a much longer, two-stage trigger. (The trigger does NOTHING to charge the hammer spring, which is already charged; the trigger just releases the hammer, a typical SA function.) Calling that mechanism/process "DA+" is a misnomer.

Lowering the hammer (i.e., flipping it forward) after it has been cocked does NOT decock the mechanisms: the spring is still compressed and the hammer is still ready to be released.) But lowering the hinged hammer makes it somewhat harder to bring the gun into action than would be the case with a standard SA pistol; the SA trigger becomes a two-stage trigger, with an easily felt and controlled first stage. It is easier to fire, in that mode, than a conventional DA trigger starting from hammer down.

If, on the ohter hand, you fully decock, you don't need to use the safety, and holster carry should be safe. If I had a LH9, however, I would NOT be carrying it hammer fully down: it would be either hammer cocked and folded forward/down, or hammer cocked and locked. I have had two DP-51s and a DH-40 (the .40 version of the DP-51); I did not notice the safety as being particularly light or easily disengaged. I don't know how that lever works with the LH9, but wouldn't expect it to be much different.

I love the looks of the pistol but I'm not to interested in the funny action.

It's not "funny" at all, it works very well, and really should be no concern to anyone thinking about buying one.

hemiram said:

It's not "funny" at all, it works very well, and really should be no concern to anyone thinking about buying one.

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I agree that the actual function of the DA+ mode is pretty cut and dry....what should be a concern to anyone thinking about buying one is exactly what benefit the DA+ mode offers over other firearms. Its main advantage seems to be that it has a long light trigger pull for the first shot. Well, this is something a Kahr can do, and the Kahr trigger will be consistent through the rest of the magazine. Many people don't like the Kahr trigger anyways, and say a long light trigger affects their accuracy, so for many people the DA+ mode on the LH9 won't help any more than a standard DA pull...and if a person preferred the long light trigger pull, wouldn't it make sense to have the consistent long light trigger pull of a Kahr instead of a long DA+ pull then short SA pulls?
In order to use the DA+ mode to its potential, you MUST ensure that the trigger will not be contacted at ANY point by anything while carrying. That means it needs a special holster designed specifically for it to be sure the trigger isn't accidentally pulled in DA+ mode. Unlike a glock and other striker fired guns that have an integral safety in the trigger, the LH9 does not and can be fired inadvertently by any object entangling or brushing against it.
Sure, you can put on the safety to make sure that you don't accidentally pull that long light trigger, but at that point its not doing anything different than any number of other guns that can be carried cocked and locked.

I haven't gotten to handle one to say for sure, but from reading about it I see no real advantage. However, the gun itself aside from that looks moderately interesting.

silicosys4 said:

In order to use the DA+ mode to its potential, you MUST ensure that the trigger will not be contacted at ANY point by anything while carrying. That means it needs a special holster designed specifically for it to be sure the trigger isn't accidentally pulled in DA+ mode. Unlike a glock and other striker fired guns that have an integral safety in the trigger, the LH9 does not and can be fired inadvertently by any object entangling or brushing against it.

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Korean Military uses standard Bianchi UM84 holster for the Daewoo K-5.

Quiet said:

Korean Military uses standard Bianchi UM84 holster for the Daewoo K-5.

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You mean this?



But thats just what I mean. That holster was designed above and beyond the normal holster to protect a gun. It was designed specifically to retain the gun and keep fingers away from moving parts. The ability to draw from that holster and its concealibility is severely compromised in the pursuit of safe retention.
It's huge, bulky, and makes a terrible carry holster for anything but the woods.
It's just unrealistic for the average civilian to carry but is an example of they type of holster needed to safely carry the LH9 in DA+ mode.

In order to use the DA+ mode to its potential, you MUST ensure that the trigger will not be contacted at ANY point by anything while carrying. That means it needs a special holster designed specifically for it to be sure the trigger isn't accidentally pulled in DA+ mode. Unlike a glock and other striker fired guns that have an integral safety in the trigger, the LH9 does not and can be fired inadvertently by any object entangling or brushing against it.

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Your concern about the trigger is arguably true of ANY GUN: make sure the holster does its job, and nothing but the gun goes into the holster. Even guns with built in trigger safeties (like the Glock) can have accidental/negligent discharges if something falls into the holster as the gun is being holstered. It has happened a number of times with a lot of different guns.

Several folks in this discussion have talked about that "light" [DA+] trigger. I suspect that NONE of these folks have actually shot a DAEWOO or Lionheart. The trigger is crisp, but it's not particularly light. (I just breaks fairly cleanly, which makes if feel lighter than it is.)

The concern about accidentally hitting the trigger is valid, but it's true of almost any that doesn't have a safety "ON" when being holstered (as would be the case with most DA/SA decocker-equipped pistols.) The Glock trigger is no less prone to accidents, when holstering, than other guns... there are many tales about such discharges to be found.

Some years back I used a DP-51 in several pistol matches and NEVER had a problem with (nor concern about) an unintentional discharge. The trigger just isn't that easy to release, nor is it THAT light. (As I noted earlier, the DA+ mode ought to be called SA+, as it's really a SA mode, not a DA mode: the trigger only releases the hammer, and does nothing else).

The HINGED HAMMER is a handy feature but not a particular reason to buy the gun, if you want to buy one. The Lionheart and DaeWoo guns, on the other hand, are solid, METAL, well-made gun, comparable to many of the steel or alloy S&W and SIG guns in most respects. They HAVE been used in combat by ROK troops.

(I've gotten to the point where I have most of the guns I want, so I'm not likely to get another DaeWoo or Lionheart, but who knows -- I may change my mind. I liked the ones I had: they always SEEMED a bit like a S&W 5906 or 4006 built by SIG. I could think of a lot of guns I liked less well.)

If you find one at a good price, you could do worse, especially if you aren't in love with plastic.

Note: in a response above, someone mentions the Kahr Trigger, which is LONG but reasonable, and he seems to prefer that to the DaeWoo/Lionheart. I don't. I have had several Kahrs and have one now. Fine gun. But EVERY TRIGGER pull is long, with the Kahr --while only the FIRST ONE is moderately long with the Lionheart/DaeWoo, if you're not starting from "cocked & Locked."

In Korean Military...
The Daewoo K-5 is typically carried in DA+ mode (chambered with hammer pushed forward) with the safety on.



Korean Mil/LE/Gov sidearms:
Colt M-1911A1 {replaced by Daewoo K-5} (carried chambered, hammer back, safety on)
Daewoo K-5 {standard issue Mil} (carried chambered, hammer forward, safety on)
H&K P-7M13 {LE CT} (carried chambered)
H&K USP-9 Tactical {Mil special forces} (carried chambered, hammer back, safety on)
Glock 19 {Mil/LE/Gov special forces} (carried chambered)
IWI Jericho 941PL {LE CT} (carried chambered, hammer back, safety on)

Carrying it with a cocked hammer spring, hammer down, and safety on seems like a very practical compromise. This gives you

1) the safety, to prevent unintentional disharges;

2) a lighter first part of the trigger stroke that is easily staged, followed by

3) the conventional SA release.

This approach is a bit more "controlled" than the conventional SA start, but offers a lighter trigger than the DA start. The use of the safety adds an extra layer of user control.

Boy, this simple, nice trigger gets a lot of flack! Let me say up front - I own one so I am speaking from 1st hand experience. DA+ is a double action length with a single action trigger weight - it is that simple! Use it if you like it-don't if you don't. I do as I have a very compromised trigger finger and need a light pull - but I carry it with the safety on-hammer forward! And yes - the safety is quite easy to dis-engage - but if it weren't everyone would complain that it was too stiff. For an accidental discharge to happen the safety would have to "accidently" get knocked off and the trigger would have to be pulled about an inch. It could happen but no more likely than any other scenario imo. There are many da/sa's that do not have de-cocking levers. You just have to go old school. If you can't handle de-cocking a pistol you probably should not have one! The trigger pull is consistent with sa in da+ - just a little longer- so the only "inconsistency " is length - not trigger weight. For those who might be considering one of these - I love mine. 1000 trouble free rounds except with aguila cheapo ammo - had consistent stove pipes and failure to lock back with that ammo. 8 other brands, three different hollow points (double-tap+p, buffalo bore+p and Gold dots+p) - NP. Very light recoil/flip. Nice trigger - right around 5lbs, DA measures about 8 to 8.5lbs. fairly short reset. Awesome looking gun IMO. Very reliable so far. Shoots as accurate as my beretta m9, my cz-p09 and my cz phantom.

By Cowbodybebop:
Holstering in double action plus with safety off makes me nervous.

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But, carrying without being in manually firing inhibited mode is the very purpose of DA mode, fast action or not.

I'd recommend just carrying a different pistol.

If you are adamanet that you use a thumb lever type firing inibitor that is non-1911, you are out of luck, becuase not so many manufacturers do it right.

Even if I did want to use a pistol with thumb lever type firing inhibitor, actually I don't, I would still have a problem with choices, because in spite of the abundance of the pistols that are equipped with one, most of the designs are executed the wrong way that I can count with the fingers of my one hand how many would be acceptable for use.

M&P does have a thumb switch version, and it is one of very few that is executed the right way, although I favor the one without the thumb lever.

But thats just what I mean. That holster was designed above and beyond the normal holster to protect a gun. It was designed specifically to retain the gun and keep fingers away from moving parts. The ability to draw from that holster and its concealibility is severely compromised in the pursuit of safe retention.
It's huge, bulky, and makes a terrible carry holster for anything but the woods.

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It does not even provide "safe retention."

Those flap hosters are good for nothing. I was in the military, and I have nothing good to say about them.

I was issued an M9 at times. I looked at the holster, then I went to PX and bought a Blackhawk SERPA. SERPA is not my top choice, but still better

By Walt Sherrill:
Carrying it with a cocked hammer spring, hammer down, and safety on seems like a very practical compromise.

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Pretty much any safety feature manipulation design is a compromise.

But, I think the design is out dated. In the era of P226, M92FS, S&W 3rd Generations, Fast action was an interesting alternative.

Now we have guns that give consistent trigger pull, does not force the user to deal with 10+ lb trigger resistance, and the option of a thumb switch if the user wants it.

I have no reason to think LH9 is an unsafe pistol, but I don't see any advantage that justifies the increased complexity. Sure, it is not a huge complexity, but it does not take a huge compexity for a screw up.

I like the option of avoiding a 10+ lb DA pull, but the problem with Fast Action is that it forces a two-stage pull, which can be a hidrance if the user wants to pull the trigger all the way with one motion. Sure, training can mitigate that, but so can training with 10+ lb DA triggers. I have a GP100 that has a very smooth 10 lb or so pull, and I have no problem making a smooth pull in one quick motion. So, I have to question the advantage of a trigger that forces a two stage pull and requires more manipulations.

Before I got into striker guns, I chose DA/SA or DAO guns, and the very purpose of that is not having to deal with thumb switches. LH9 does not accomplish that. Even besides "Just leave it off and forget about it" being a dangerous fallacy, the lever engagement is not positive.

Test Pilot said:

But, I think the design is out dated. In the era of P226, M92FS, S&W 3rd Generations, Fast action was an interesting alternative.

Now we have guns that give consistent trigger pull, does not force the user to deal with 10+ lb trigger resistance, and the option of a thumb switch if the user wants it.

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Increasingly, thumb safeties seem to be going away -- along with hammers. Strikers are beginning to rule the gun world. And, of course, some folks don't like striker-fired guns -- or ones that come with polymer frames.

As for "consistent trigger pulls," I would argue that only 1) SA , 2) DAO, or 3) striker-fired guns really give you "consistent" trigger pulls. That is not the case with most DA/SA guns -- while a lot of DA/SA hammer-fired and decocker-equipped guns have less than 10+ lbs DA triggers, most of them have markedly different first and second trigger pulls weights (i.e., NOT consistent).

The Lionheart and the almost identical DaeWoo DP-51 and DH-40 (I've owned both) do not force users to deal with 10+lb triggers or safety levers. While I haven't had an opportunity to measure the trigger weights of any of these guns, they seemed lighter than 10+ pounds in DA mode, and are certainly lighter in either of the SA modes. (I almost never shot mine in DA mode -- I couldn't think of a reason to do so!!) You can use the safety lever in all three modes, if you want -- suspenders and a belt, so to speak, if you choose to start from DA/hammer down.

As noted, the Daewoo/Lionheart hammer-down single-action mode offers a very stageable single-action trigger: lighter than DA (but with the same SA pull weight); you reach the point where the SA trigger is activated only after a much-longer-than-SA mode trigger pull and you can feel it when it happens: the pull includes a very noticeable STEP as the hammer flips back to the SA position. It's an obvious step, not unlike dropping the safety -- very noticeable, but requiring no special action on your part and far more easily done than flipping the safety lever on a cocked & locked semi-auto (which you might forget to do in the heat of the moment.)

Test Pilot said:

I have no reason to think LH9 is an unsafe pistol, but I don't see any advantage that justifies the increased complexity. Sure, it is not a huge complexity, but it does not take a huge compexity for a screw up.

I like the option of avoiding a 10+ lb DA pull, but the problem with Fast Action is that it forces a two-stage pull, which can be a hidrance if the user wants to pull the trigger all the way with one motion. Sure, training can mitigate that, but so can training with 10+ lb DA triggers. I have a GP100 that has a very smooth 10 lb or so pull, and I have no problem making a smooth pull in one quick motion. So, I have to question the advantage of a trigger that forces a two stage pull and requires more manipulations.

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It's not more complex. Adding a hinge to the trigger is a trivial addition and it actually simplifies SA mode; removing the need for flipping the safety lever makes USING the SA trigger less complex but arguably no less safe. Consider it a LONG takeup. And it's only two stages if you want it to be -- and I often wanted it to be. But, stroking on through in a single motion works just fine, too.

Some here are discussing the Lionheart's perceived merits and faults based on a theoretical understanding of the design (derived from other forum discussions and reading ad copy) but not on first-hand experience. Those who have shot the gun typically are more positive. Those who haven't done so should try to handle one, and even shoot it, if they can. They might be pleasantly surprised.

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I agree with the first reply.

Lowering a hammer is easy. Just practice first.

It is basic safe gun handling IMO.

If you are really still nervous you could always build a clearing barrel and use it when lowering the hammer.