Hunting with 30-30 at 500 yards?

Thanks Goosey. 8 inches variance in 10 yards...that's easily the difference between a hit an miss. 10 yards short estimation and your shooting under. 10 yards long guess and your shooting over.

Theres a couple things that make this viable back in the day. Hunters hunted to eat and had far more experiences shooting game. They were use to long shots and using vernier sights. Plus game was plentiful and much less wary so you could get multiple shots.

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Just.....no.


I'm sorry, but I'm not buying the idea that the 30-30 was ever viable 500 yard rifle, regardless of how hungry someone was, or what sights they had. You don't just successfully guesstimate drops of several feet successfully, in the field, especially without modern optics,rangefinders, and the like. While I have ZERO doubt there were excellent marksmen back in the day, I'd be willing to bet no one can offer any sort of proof that the 30-30 was used repetedly and successfully on game at the range in that time period. Even knowing the ranges involved, using modern optics, rests, and whatnot, a 500 yard kill with a 30-30 would be pretty noteworthy, and not something the average Joe should ever even consider trying. As for the game being common place and "stupid" enough to allow multiple shots.....Think baout the silliness here. For one, historical records don't support the idea of vast numbers of game at that time, and two, if they were so "stupid" as to allow hunters multiple shots....why weren't they "stupid" enough for the hunter to approach to a much more appropriate range before firing? If they were hungry and game was abundant, it doesn't make sense lobbing bullets that drop several feet towards the general direction of a game animal, espeocally considering ammo was expensive and not something to be wasted on fool-hearty pursuits....would it?

Furthermore, it does seem odd the Western Cartridge Company would misspell its own address, as was located in East Alton, not East Ashton, as was previously pointed out

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Cartridge_Company

i think if one had a rem 788 and loaded a 150gr hornady sst at 2500 fps from a 24" barrel you could get it done. it would still be going about 1600fps and over 800fpe, with a target scope with clicks and range finder from a rest i would take the shot. eastbank.

Maybe...but could you do it in '26 with the equipment available at the time? Didn't think so...

As I mentioned before my brother has operated a 30-30 since the time his age actually matched his actions and has a good deal of expertise with the rifle & the cartridge it fires. While he will approach the 300 meter targets with that rifle, the longer ranges he will not. I'm told he has taken coyotes at "extreme" range with the weapon but he was using reloads that featured ball that he didn't dare load more than one in the tube magazine because the tips would have rested on the primers of the next round and recoil would have set them off. The versions of the story I've heard make me think the words "want to bet (x amount of dollars) I can't hit it?" were involved.

That story makes me believe the 30-30 is capable of that range but cannot achieve it due to the restrictions of the ball shape by the features of the rifles that chamber it.

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Just lob one in there... just takes practice, like anything else.

lob

verb

1. throw or hit (a ball or missile [or projectile]) in a high arc.

synonyms: throw, toss, fling, pitch, hurl, pelt, sling, launch, propel; chuck, heave

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Haven't any of you guys seen Quigly down under. Sellick lobbed them in. haha

Fella's;

I'm not going to say it can't be done, but I will say it shouldn't be done. Not even if the shooter is, or has, carried MOS 0341. That's a USMC mortarman.

900F

I hit a large whitetail dead in the front shoulder at 170yds. Knocked it off it's feet. 60 seconds later it got up and ran away. Not one drop of blood found. Deer wasn't even limping. I have shot 2 deer in my life that I did not recover - both with a 30-30 at 150-170yds. I bought a 30-06! Haven't missed a deer since - have not missed a recovery since! That was 6 years ago. It would take a hell of a shooter to hit at 500 yards with any wind at all. And I think you could catch the bullet in a good leather baseball glove??

Well keep in mind the old .32-20 was originally advertised as a deer cartridge as well. That was BEFORE the high-velocity loads came out.

I'm sure the standards of power needed to cleanly take deer were different back then compared to the thinking of today.

I imagine an expert rifleman of the day could pull it off with his then modern rifle and cartridge..equipped with a tang sight and lots of practice.

I say 'expert rifleman'...'cause I imagine the task of popping a deer at 500 yards with a .30WCF(.30-30) would be beyond the realm of probability for the average shooter.

Of course I'm sure deer were larger back then too...not the spindly 80# to 120# deer we knock-off today at 300 meters with a scoped .300 Win mag and think we are just superb riflemen...

That is an advertisement..something to bear in mind...The ammo-makers put the speel to us yet today!

i think this spring when i,ll working my long range .308, i,ll load some 150gr round nose bullets at 2400fps for hits and giggles and work it at 500yrds just to see how it carries up. we do shoot to 800yds with large black powder rifles in 45-70,s and larger, the targets are big. but they get hit mostly with the first shot useing tall tang sight and globe fronts with 500-525gr bullets at 1400-1450fps. eastbank.

When my Grandfather was hunting if he used a 30-30 for deer he would have been laughed at by his buddies. "What do you need such a heavy gun for?" Would be the question when a 25-35 was a common deer cartridge.

It's hard for the under 40 crowd to understand what was done back then since you are some used to high velocity cartridges and excellent glass. The tools become the crutch.

A simple .22LR bullet is capable of penetrating a 1/2 pine board @450 yards (and probably further) which makes it capable of cleanly killing at those distances.

probably trying to compete with that new-fangled hotrod, the 270 winchester.

murf

Shooting a 30-30 to 500 yds isn't all that improbable. Consider also that at that time rifles were quite likely to be fitted with a ladder sight that is also calibrated for the cartridge.
There are no shortages of shooting competitions where the 30 wcf is fired on steel targets to 500 yds and beyond. The early sillouette matches were often won by folks that their 30-30 rifle was just an extention of their arm.
Shooting game with it at that range isn't impossible but it takes a good bit of wind doping skills, something modern shooters who spend their working hours in an office, and their shooting time on confined ranges may not necessarily be as exposed to as those who lived a different livestyle 80 years ago..
If you look at most ballistic tables, the 30-30 has more fpe at 300 yds than anything sensible fired from a 44 magnum handgun has at the muzzle, yet we seldom here about what a pathetic combination that is..

I doubt it was a wide spread practice but I'm sure some did it and were probably good at it. I've learned to never under estimate want an individual could do in their era with the tools they had. For example, pyramids, landing on the moon in the 60s with primitive computers, the sopohisitication of steam power 200 years ago.

I wonder if the wrong city name was intentional? Maybe that was a decorative re-print and they avoided copy-write by making an error.

If you look at ads from the 1930s they changed the street number a few times.

Would you shoot a 30 30 at a deer even at a lasered 500 yard shot?

Why? If you are that hungry and unethical a hunter freeze your woodchucks and leave the poor deer alone.

Spring had better come soon.

Don McDowell said:

Shooting a 30-30 to 500 yds isn't all that improbable. Consider also that at that time rifles were quite likely to be fitted with a ladder sight that is also calibrated for the cartridge.
There are no shortages of shooting competitions where the 30 wcf is fired on steel targets to 500 yds and beyond. The early sillouette matches were often won by folks that their 30-30 rifle was just an extention of their arm.
Shooting game with it at that range isn't impossible but it takes a good bit of wind doping skills, something modern shooters who spend their working hours in an office, and their shooting time on confined ranges may not necessarily be as exposed to as those who lived a different livestyle 80 years ago..
If you look at most ballistic tables, the 30-30 has more fpe at 300 yds than anything sensible fired from a 44 magnum handgun has at the muzzle, yet we seldom here about what a pathetic combination that is..

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Very well put. Theres plenty of videoed shots on Youtube of long range shooting with low power rifle and even handgun rounds. If the old time hunters saw the typical, modern Cabelas/Gander Mountain decked out hunter they'd laugh their A$$ off. And I'll bet non of them looked at a balistic table. They shot at something and corrected. It's not rocket science.

Some of us here like to shoot far away things with rifles that have a rainbow trajectory.

50-90 Shiloh Sharps. 34 inch barrel, 3.75 inch tall rear sight.

At paper, yes. At live game, I don't think it is ethical.
I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but perhaps it shouldn't be.

I have a old M1876 Danish RB made in 1882 that has a ladder sight with range grads out to 1000 kroner's or something like that. It has a volley sight that a multplier of 10 on the ladder sight.

Averageman said:

At paper, yes. At live game, I don't think it is ethical.
I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but perhaps it shouldn't be.

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For the most part I don't think anybody has any real business shooting at previously undwounded game beyond 300 yds, no matter what the cartridge. Most folks just don't have the skills to ethically shoot that far..
But shooting long range targets with the old rainbow cartridges is a ton of fun.

Averageman said:

At paper, yes. At live game, I don't think it is ethical.
I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but perhaps it shouldn't be.

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This add is from the 1920,s during the Great Depression. I doubt "ethics" crossed the mind to starving people trying to get meat to survive. Keep this in mind. It's easy to judge from behind a warm computer.