M855 victory!!!!

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one part of me is overjoyed. One small part is saddened.

I knew it would never be banned, as I had a very healthy supply of the stuff. With the divine intervention that oft seems to keep my bank account preternaturally empty - the possibility that I was sitting on a significant ready source of income was too much for fate to contend with - and the universe once again stepped in to remedy the situation lol.
And you are posting that in a public forum?

Mike
 
Don't be so quick to declare victory. When you let your guard down they will sneak around and before you find out it's a law.
 
Banning rifle ammo because it *might* be used in a rare handgun never made sense anyway. Some things are so silly stupid that even the F Troop figures it out.
 
It's sad to read some of these comments. It's clear quite a few people here have little hope in their lives -- at least when it comes to firearms and related supplies.

Hope is an extremely important virtue for all to have. Hope is not about being naive or ignorant. Hope is one of the prime virtues that allow the continuance of fitting the good fight.

I wish more Pro-2A individuals would do what it takes to bring/build more hope into their lives.

A large number of gun owners aren't happy unless they're complaining about something.

They're worse than useless.
 
Yes, we won, this time in this instance. Let's not forget this is a tactical retreat and not a capitulation.

They'll be back unless we use the momentum from this skirmish to get LEOPA amended to specifically address armor piercing ammunition "designed and intended to be fired from a handgun" and exclude any and all rifle ammunition regardless of whether a handgun variant is developed.
 
Yes, we won, this time in this instance. Let's not forget this is a tactical retreat and not a capitulation.

They'll be back unless we use the momentum from this skirmish to get LEOPA amended to specifically address armor piercing ammunition "designed and intended to be fired from a handgun" and exclude any and all rifle ammunition regardless of whether a handgun variant is developed.
I'm going to have to strongly disagree with the second part of your statement: Guns are our right and they have always been dangerous; helping to codeify gun control should never be our approach -- I believe the correct move is to double down to plain end the ATF.

Thank you.
 
I have to agree with all those who say this was not a victory. They have merely stated they will wait until the comment period is over and then decide....in simpler terms "okay, we tried to slip the ban in by an omission a couple of months back and it didn't work. Now we'll proceed with the original plan, listen to public comments, and then we'll ban it."

It isn't even a particularly clever diversion, although it seems to have worked on many here as well as the NRA leadership.
 
copied from fox news

The weapons would still work without the M855s but they would no longer be capable of firing body-armor piercing ammo.:banghead:
 
I agree AR15activist. What has been accomplished is that we legitimized the notion that we as the people should have to beg a gov agency for rights that they don't have the power to take. Yes, this is a win compared to the other outcome, I just don't see it as the great victory some make it out to be.
I do indeed have hope though. I have seen enough of the "flyover" states to have hope for our country and our freedom. The process might not be the smoothest but I firmly believe we will get where we need to be.
Good on everyone for participating and making a difference. Keep it up, but I ask you to not to lose sight of the fact that our freedoms do not come from the government.
 
I think much of their decision was influenced by a few members of congress starting to publicly question ATF's powers. Maybe a few folks began to worry about job security and loss of power? I think that it would be wise for our congressional leaders to continue that endeavor and not just chalk this up to "mission accomplished". We spend too much time playing defense and counter-punching instead of taking the offensive.
 
I'm going to have to strongly disagree with the second part of your statement: Guns are our right and they have always been dangerous; helping to codeify gun control should never be our approach -- I believe the correct move is to double down to plain end the ATF.

Thank you.
Exactly right. It's easier to keep a door locked than a little open.
 
A large number of gun owners aren't happy unless they're complaining about something.

They're worse than useless.

Do you think they actually understand the importance of having and expressing HOPE? It almost seems as if they think being constantly negative makes them look wise, when the exact opposite is true.

The virtue of hope is real. It's something that a lot of people need to understand and hopefully gain.
 
Several people seem to be unclear what happened here. So let's hit the high points:

1) The ATF Proposed Framework is dead. ATF will not go forward with that proposal.

2) After reading and evaluating comments, ATF may choose to issue a new proposal. ATF promises this proposal will be accompanied by an opportunity for further comment from the community.

In basic terms, we have won a single battle in a campaign; but haven't yet won the campaign or the war. ATF still treats M855 as exempted AP ammo even though it doesn't meet the statutory definition. Additionally, ATF is still interpreting words Congress failed to define very broadly and in an aggressively anti-gun manner.

These are problems that we can and should fix before ATF revisits this issue by encouraging Congress to better define these terms or remove the statutory authority entirely.

Having said all that, it was a pretty big battle to win. It is as if the Texans at the Alamo didn't just delay Santa Anna long enough for the other Texas forces to rally; but instead defeated him and sent him into retreat. Everybody who played their part should be proud and keep it in mind the next time people tell you that you won't make a difference.
 
Good job people

Glad for this victory, but as others have mentioned, we must stay ever vigilant towards the Hydra that seeks to disarm us!
 
this is not a victory, its a bone we've been tossed to quiet us for the time being, your ammo is still in great jeopardy so long as the ATF still has the power to do it.. if you sit back now, do nothing, and let up, they will wait until then when you think youve won to pass a ban, the victory is when all ammo theyve illegally banned is overturned and returned to us and we can be ensured they will no longer have the ability to do it again

unfortunately, most people here dont care, so long as they got what they want, who cares about 7n6 and steel core 7.62, right?, well we all should and NEVER let up
 
Pricing to reflect this??

Now the price will come back down so we can afford it again?? Amazing how these events cause the prices to skyrocket. Not long ago it was the same with AR's, now $600 to $800 will buy what was $1800.00 during that ban scare.

Just Another Old Doggy, Don
 
What kind of political doubletalk is that?

It's the kind that allows them to back out of something while trying to save face and more importantly trying to preserve the power to pull the same stunt in the future when there's a different party controlling congress. It's not that I trust the Republicans to do the right thing but like all politicians they will respond to a huge groundswell of oppostion to something and that's what we saw here. As long as Americans remain vigilant I am "very" hopefulf for the future. We have beat back the huns quite a few times and I see no reason to think we won't keep doing the same.
 
i read somewhere that nato was planning to drop the 62 grain M855 cartridge and switch to a solid lead projectile, and the ATF ban was in response of that to stem off a massive influx of incredibly dirt cheap 5.56 ammo.. im not sure if this is true, but if it is then M855 prices wont just return to level, but would drop to a fraction of what they were
 
Do you think they actually understand the importance of having and expressing HOPE? It almost seems as if they think being constantly negative makes them look wise, when the exact opposite is true.

The virtue of hope is real. It's something that a lot of people need to understand and hopefully gain.

Part of it's cultural. For anyone who lived through the years running from the 1960s through about 2004, being pro-gun was a continually losing proposition, so trying to remain hopeful about anything when it came to gun rights was kind of futile.

Prior to the repeal of the federal ban on so-called "assault weapons," the only bright spot I can think of was the passage of concealed carry in Florida, followed by a handful of other states.

I, personally, came of age and developed my interest in firearms during the federal ban, and at the time, the gun culture had a palpable vibe of being continually under siege.

Once you're in that siege mentality, it's really hard to get out of it, and to some extent, some people even get a somewhat romantic attachment to it because it lets them believe they're the last of their kind.

The thing is, since 2004, the pro-liberty side has racked up one success after another at every level from local municipalities to The Supreme Court. Gun rights are in the best shape they've been in since the 1930s, and there is much to be hopeful about.

Are things perfect?

No. We have a lot of work to do, especially at the state level, but they are improving, and if someone isn't motivated enough donate time, money, or a phone call to their elected legislators, I have exactly zero use for them.
 
No victory at all. They will just reword it and make it mandatory as no comment period was needed at all.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=775615

Basically, the decision in Perez seems to mean the ATF doesn't have to do anything more than issue edicts as they see fit.

If they issue the ban after March 17, tho, the repercussions will be largely negative.

Some are saying that seeing this in a negative light goes to a dark view of life. Others would say they aren't being naïve, the ATF isn't suddenly changing their stripes, much less the Administration.

IMHO, thinking this is a setback for the antigunners is not seeing the longer game. The Court made a new decision about commentary periods, the lawyers are interpreting it, the policy wonks will spin it, and the M855 ban will not only resurface, it may well include other items.

The potential for things getting worse is just as good as the ATF abandoning the entire effort. If you thought Congress couldn't enact an AWB, you know better.

If you think the ATF won't ban M855, think again. The only real fallout is adjusting the Lake City contract and the taxpayer will finance that anyway.

To the naïve the experienced and informed view appears cynical. Youth and enthusiasm is nice, but just one stage of life. You will get older, and other humans will take advantage of you for their own selfish ends. Heed the ides of March - in Roman history the Republic fell and the Empire began.
 
Oh, I think we won... that pot. But don't think for a second that the game or tourney is over.

Ever play Texas Holdem? The idea is to win one pot at a time until you've got all the chips. Some pots your opponent folds before the showdown. Doesn't mean he's quitting the game. We'll win a few. He'll win a few. He won't go all in every time. It's too risky. He's got lots of chips.

We gotta go after his banker.
 
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