Jlr2267
Member
I'm in the "hiding is better than securing" camp. Granted, a thief who knows he has all day to clean you out will do just that no matter what you do, but that's what insurance is for.
Two of My Safes Broken Into - Getting a new Good One Now
- Thread starter RoyWalkeriv
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Charley C
Member
Securing Safe To Wood Framing
Roy;
Your new safe; by all means, use FOUR bolts to hold it down, not two; You mentioned it only had two bolt holes; drill two more! (Actually, you'll probably need to drill all four, as the hold down bolts need to be fairly near the four corners of the safe. ) It's not that big of a job. A safe with only two hold down bolts is very easy to break loose using a pry bar.
Securing a safe to a floor depends entirely on how the floor is made, and there are too many different types of construction to give a detailed explanation of how to do it. Just as an example, my safe has four hold down bolts, each 5/8"; the safe sits on 3/4" hard wood flooring which is on 3/4" plywood sub-floor; underneath the sub floor, I took two 48" lengths of 4" channel iron, drilled 4 screw holes in each channel iron, screwed the channels to the sub floor with the flanges down, then the four hold down bolts each have 3 flat washers, 2", 21/2" and 3" dia, under the bolt heads, the bolts then go through the safe bottom, 1 1/2" of wood flooring, and through the channel iron which is maybe 3/16"; using the two 4" wide X 48" long channel irons spreads the load out over a great distance, giving it a LOT of physical strength; also....each bolt has a 1/8" X 2" flat washer under the channel iron, all held in place by TWO lock nuts on each bolt, the 4 bottom nuts being castellated, and the bolts are drilled a 1/8" cotter pin secures each bolt.
Even if thieves were to get in the basement they still won't see my elaborate hold-down "scheme", as the two channel irons are on either side of a 2 X 12 floor joist, and I have a 4ft X 5ft piece of 1/2" plywood screwed in place to two floor joists with about twelve 2" drywall screws on either side; I then have a four foot 4X4 "strong-back" in the middle of the plywood with a 4" steel post between it and the concrete floor; (the post is partly for concealment and partly to prevent any floor "sag" from the weight of the safe. If anyone ever decides to burgle the safe, they best have some effective "hearing protection" as I "invented" the loudest home made alarm you'll ever hear! (The bell for the alarm is outside and on the roof. )
Probably the best protection for a gun collection is.........be extremely cautious about "WHO" knows you have guns. IMO, about 75% burglaries involving guns are the result of the wrong people knowing where the guns were.
Good Luck!
Charley C
Roy;
Your new safe; by all means, use FOUR bolts to hold it down, not two; You mentioned it only had two bolt holes; drill two more! (Actually, you'll probably need to drill all four, as the hold down bolts need to be fairly near the four corners of the safe. ) It's not that big of a job. A safe with only two hold down bolts is very easy to break loose using a pry bar.
Securing a safe to a floor depends entirely on how the floor is made, and there are too many different types of construction to give a detailed explanation of how to do it. Just as an example, my safe has four hold down bolts, each 5/8"; the safe sits on 3/4" hard wood flooring which is on 3/4" plywood sub-floor; underneath the sub floor, I took two 48" lengths of 4" channel iron, drilled 4 screw holes in each channel iron, screwed the channels to the sub floor with the flanges down, then the four hold down bolts each have 3 flat washers, 2", 21/2" and 3" dia, under the bolt heads, the bolts then go through the safe bottom, 1 1/2" of wood flooring, and through the channel iron which is maybe 3/16"; using the two 4" wide X 48" long channel irons spreads the load out over a great distance, giving it a LOT of physical strength; also....each bolt has a 1/8" X 2" flat washer under the channel iron, all held in place by TWO lock nuts on each bolt, the 4 bottom nuts being castellated, and the bolts are drilled a 1/8" cotter pin secures each bolt.
Even if thieves were to get in the basement they still won't see my elaborate hold-down "scheme", as the two channel irons are on either side of a 2 X 12 floor joist, and I have a 4ft X 5ft piece of 1/2" plywood screwed in place to two floor joists with about twelve 2" drywall screws on either side; I then have a four foot 4X4 "strong-back" in the middle of the plywood with a 4" steel post between it and the concrete floor; (the post is partly for concealment and partly to prevent any floor "sag" from the weight of the safe. If anyone ever decides to burgle the safe, they best have some effective "hearing protection" as I "invented" the loudest home made alarm you'll ever hear! (The bell for the alarm is outside and on the roof. )
Probably the best protection for a gun collection is.........be extremely cautious about "WHO" knows you have guns. IMO, about 75% burglaries involving guns are the result of the wrong people knowing where the guns were.
Good Luck!
Charley C
evan price
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Deleted
consoleman
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- Mar 3, 2015
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- 8
Roy,
Where did you find a sturdy with 1/4" thick body with 5/8" door for $800?
I did find a 20"W 18"D 20"H w/o fire for $737 without the door and body thicknesses you specified.
Where did you find a sturdy with 1/4" thick body with 5/8" door for $800?
I did find a 20"W 18"D 20"H w/o fire for $737 without the door and body thicknesses you specified.
RoyWalkeriv
Member
JLr, et al. I'm with ya brother. Am employing that as well as good secure down and a premium safe.
Thanks Charlie for the detailed explanation. I had to look up castellated - never seen that kind of nut. And yep, I also decided to put some larger plates down under to spread the load out. Thanks for confirming this. What's the idea of TWO lock nuts exactly? Just more slippage so turning one end won't work?
Consoleman: If you call Sturdy Safe on their toll free number and talk with them, they may knock off some more and give you a discount. I added the "premium essentially 1/4" on all sides and 3/8" door" package for some extra bucks, THEN they knocked off a bit to give me a total of $797 for that safe, shipped. It may be that they were able to knock down the shipping cost, since they're in California and I'm only 3 states over - and they're not having to ship it to New England states, or other states further across the country. I suspect this 300 lb safe is going to be like a small tank. Seems like the big names in this same safe charge around 2 grand. And Sturdy Safes are American made baby! http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/12814-8/polish-small-tank-tks.jpg
Thanks Charlie for the detailed explanation. I had to look up castellated - never seen that kind of nut. And yep, I also decided to put some larger plates down under to spread the load out. Thanks for confirming this. What's the idea of TWO lock nuts exactly? Just more slippage so turning one end won't work?
Consoleman: If you call Sturdy Safe on their toll free number and talk with them, they may knock off some more and give you a discount. I added the "premium essentially 1/4" on all sides and 3/8" door" package for some extra bucks, THEN they knocked off a bit to give me a total of $797 for that safe, shipped. It may be that they were able to knock down the shipping cost, since they're in California and I'm only 3 states over - and they're not having to ship it to New England states, or other states further across the country. I suspect this 300 lb safe is going to be like a small tank. Seems like the big names in this same safe charge around 2 grand. And Sturdy Safes are American made baby! http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/12814-8/polish-small-tank-tks.jpg
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Kayaker 1960
Member
Safe
I just sold my house, My realtor recommended getting anything that might hint that I have firearms out of sight. I took down wall mounted antlers, pictures etc. Even with that I talked to a nice gentleman who toured my house that guessed that I might be a hunter because I have pictures of outdoor settings and a picture of a Grizzly bear in my dining room. He was an avid hunter himself.
I just sold my house, My realtor recommended getting anything that might hint that I have firearms out of sight. I took down wall mounted antlers, pictures etc. Even with that I talked to a nice gentleman who toured my house that guessed that I might be a hunter because I have pictures of outdoor settings and a picture of a Grizzly bear in my dining room. He was an avid hunter himself.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
a1abdj
Member
Banks prohibit all sorts of things as far as safe deposit boxes go. People ignore those rules all the time, and in reality, the bank should never know what is in your box anyway. It's none of their business, which is why they provide the small rooms for you to take your box into to add/subtract contents.
Your assets are not insured in a safe deposit box (by the bank at least), so it's not like they can "deny a claim" because you had something that they didn't want you to have in there.
Sheepdog1968
Member
Glad it wasn't worse than that. I spent a great deal of time researching safes and found two brands I would go with - Ft Knox and Sturdy Gun Safes. Sturdy is my choice.
I found that with many other brands I couldn't find the steel thickness easily or the components in the safe walls. There is a reason for that.
I found that with many other brands I couldn't find the steel thickness easily or the components in the safe walls. There is a reason for that.
RoyWalkeriv,
Concealing a real safe is a great idea, but putting "bait" safes out attracts problems instead of preventing them. A stranger that can see a bait safe has been given more reason to break in than one that just sees the standard household items.
Concealing a Sturdy or a Ft. Knox buys you time against thieves making off with your goods and if you alarm your house and have it monitored you can make them take more time finding it and deciding if they want the risk of being caught in the house by the responding law enforcement authorities even in rural areas than they want to risk.
Is Sturdy a good brand? I'd let a1abdj answer that.
Concealing a real safe is a great idea, but putting "bait" safes out attracts problems instead of preventing them. A stranger that can see a bait safe has been given more reason to break in than one that just sees the standard household items.
Concealing a Sturdy or a Ft. Knox buys you time against thieves making off with your goods and if you alarm your house and have it monitored you can make them take more time finding it and deciding if they want the risk of being caught in the house by the responding law enforcement authorities even in rural areas than they want to risk.
Is Sturdy a good brand? I'd let a1abdj answer that.
Sovblocgunfan
Member
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2014
- Messages
- 1,482
We sold our house recently. Before the house went on the market, all the guns except daily carry were removed to offsite storage.
We also removed anything shooting/hunting related. But this was part of the staging process more than anything else.
We also removed anything shooting/hunting related. But this was part of the staging process more than anything else.
Fella's;
We also sold our home within the last year. We closed off the man-cave/reloading room, but all the guns were put in the safe, and the safe was easily visible to anyone touring the house. However, the safe was a Graffunder, so no worries on my part.
900F
We also sold our home within the last year. We closed off the man-cave/reloading room, but all the guns were put in the safe, and the safe was easily visible to anyone touring the house. However, the safe was a Graffunder, so no worries on my part.
900F
Arizona_Mike
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- Feb 15, 2013
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- 3,452
Roy, I don't get the guys criticizing you. I think reading comprehension tends to be a little lax around here.
I find no fault in you using your decoy safes as cabinets for ammo and a couple knives with your coins (and presumably guns) in the real safe. Without the decoy safes where would the ammo have been? In a closet? Also if you just had linens in there, the thieves probably would have gotten curious.
Mike
I find no fault in you using your decoy safes as cabinets for ammo and a couple knives with your coins (and presumably guns) in the real safe. Without the decoy safes where would the ammo have been? In a closet? Also if you just had linens in there, the thieves probably would have gotten curious.
Mike
Sheepdog1968
Member
Last time I sold my home, I moved out entirely and had it staged. I lived in a family home for a while till the house sold and we bought a new one. It was a bit stressful but I worried less knowing none of my stuff would be stolen. The time before that, all firearms and valuables were moved out.
Roy,
Sorry you have to endure the result of no-good @#x*&^ and their actions. If we would hang a few guys like that, we would all be better off. Your note is helpful for those of us who have been postponing the installation of a good safe. And to stop postponing the purchase of additional insurance. Thanks for sharing your story, a cautionary tale for sure.
Sorry you have to endure the result of no-good @#x*&^ and their actions. If we would hang a few guys like that, we would all be better off. Your note is helpful for those of us who have been postponing the installation of a good safe. And to stop postponing the purchase of additional insurance. Thanks for sharing your story, a cautionary tale for sure.
nyresq
Member
make sure you have that cabinet bolted down, and if possible, bolted through the wall behind it. A 300lb box is nothing and a single person with a hand truck and a crow bar will have that thing out of the house in less than 10 minutes.
A safe and a steel box are two vastly different things. Don't assume a 300lb steel box of 4 ga sheet metal is going to offer anywhere near the same resistance as 1/4" plate steel. there is more than just a millimeter difference between sheet metal and plate steel. Most real safes are also filled with a composite or concrete fill which helps to fend off attacks as well as offers fire resistance.
My Graffunder's body is 1/2" plate backed with a couple inches of concrete with a 1" solid plate door. This also required a professional safe moving company to deliver and place. Its not going to be moved by a couple crackheads without finding one of them crushed and dead the next morning...
A safe and a steel box are two vastly different things. Don't assume a 300lb steel box of 4 ga sheet metal is going to offer anywhere near the same resistance as 1/4" plate steel. there is more than just a millimeter difference between sheet metal and plate steel. Most real safes are also filled with a composite or concrete fill which helps to fend off attacks as well as offers fire resistance.
My Graffunder's body is 1/2" plate backed with a couple inches of concrete with a 1" solid plate door. This also required a professional safe moving company to deliver and place. Its not going to be moved by a couple crackheads without finding one of them crushed and dead the next morning...
Taurus 617 CCW
Member
You could always move into a house that used to be a bank but now renovated. We had one for sale in the previous town I lived in. Still had the bank vault and everything.
Have you thought about a video surveillance system for your safe room and outside your entrances? They can be had for fairly cheap these days and you can even view them from the internet. Some of them can be set to record when motion activates them.
Have you thought about a video surveillance system for your safe room and outside your entrances? They can be had for fairly cheap these days and you can even view them from the internet. Some of them can be set to record when motion activates them.
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