1911 on a $600 budget

tomrkba said:

Wrong gun type. "Budget" and "1911" do not go well together.

Many guys are going to claim their low end 1911's are awesome, never jam and are absolute tack drivers. I've played with these lower end guns and invariably had problems.

I did get lucky once and scored a used Colt XSE for $650.

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Well, the one I own (Remington 1911 R1) has run flawlessly after the first 100 rounds and first cleaning.

Winkman822 said:

The biggest thing that I think people don't realize about the 1911 is that they are a gun that doesn't lend itself well to mass production. They required skilled fitting of parts if you want everything to mate up correctly and if you want the gun to function properly.

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Yeah right. They weren't mass produced during WW II now were they? By unskilled workers to boot.

The low cost basic design is serviceable. My Norinco originally cost me $300 and has been reliable and accurate. Just like the GI guns that served the US military for 74 years.

To say that the design needs to be tightened and upgraded with special parts is really an insult to the gun's designer.

Of course it's a free country and you can customize it all you want, but the basic gun does work as it was originally intended.

tomrkba said:

Wrong gun type. "Budget" and "1911" do not go well together.

Many guys are going to claim their low end 1911's are awesome, never jam and are absolute tack drivers. I've played with these lower end guns and invariably had problems.

I did get lucky once and scored a used Colt XSE for $650.

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So, are you implying the owners of lower tier 1911's are being dishonest?

The RIA 9mm 1911s I have I expected to give me problems. After all, they were not mainland, name-brand, mirror-finished 1911s - heck, they weren't even chambered in the proper caliber!

So I gave them the best possible chances to perform. I opened the boxes, took the guns out of their plastic bags, and gave them a thorough exterior wipe down to remove the shipping oil. I selected ammo known for it's (lack of) power: WWB, PMC, and gun show reloads, and went to the range.

I shot all three with all the different ammos I had. They all FAILED to make .45 inch holes in the targets. OTOH, they did make lots of smaller ones, close together, with very light recoil and no fuss whatsoever. My wife tried one and took great pleasure in both the resulting group and the way the gun handles. Of course, she doesn't have the expertise to understand that just because a gun is easy to shoot well, fun to shoot, and does so without any failures of any kind, that doesn't make it GOOD - only a substantial price tag and a bright finish can do that!

It reminds me of when Glocks were new to America.

Original 1911 Design

The Colt 1911 .45 ACP was designed to be a military service sidearm to function under the extremes of war and combat. As such, it was termed to be a "mudder", with loose tolerances to accommodate dirt, grit, sand, and mud, and still function properly.

Some prefer to make the tolerances tighter, to maximize accuracy. This is OK, as you like it.

I am of the former group. Traditionalist mudder, rather than the latter, tighter paper puncher.

Comme ci, comme ca.

Glockwheeler said:

So, are you implying the owners of lower tier 1911's are being dishonest?

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And if you look at the tolerances of the 1911's that were mass produced to fulfill government contracts, they were a whole lot looser than even the most basic of modern production 1911s...and don't forget that the military services had armorers to services the guns when they did not run properly. I'd venture a guess that a first time 1911 buyer out of the gate isn't going to be familiar enough with the platform to track down the causes of relatively common function problems with mass produced 1911s. And yes, I include higher priced 1911s from the likes of Smith & Wesson, Kimber, Colt, and Springfield in there as well.

Ditto on the Magnum Research 1911. They're exceptional guns for the price. They're produced in Israel by Bul Firearms and are well finished pistols beyond what you get with RIA. They now have the full line from a 3" model to full sized 5".

Two of my finest ever 1911s were Rock Island full sized. A blued "Match Grade" one I won on auction, and paid a bit too much for (700+), but had to have it. You know how that goes. The second is a "Tactical" stainless, and I was able to snag it for $500 NIB. They are priced a bit higher than that, I know.
I am no professional shooter, but I detect very little difference, if any, between the two. The stainless Tactical should come in right around $600, and is highly recommended.

The R1 is a great deal, it shoots very good groups out of the box. The only thing I changed were the mags. You can get them on Slickguns for under 500. If you wait for a sale, "which I believe they may still be having" even less.
The Ruger is also under, or right at, 6 now, if you wait for a slickguns sale on it. Both guns have a Commander model, a higher priced and a lower priced model, if that interests you.
Ruger has a Commander that is around a grand, and one that is the same as the standard R1. You have to realize that at the $500.00 price point, you may have to "break the gun in" a bit, until the parts seat. But they are both very nice for the money. On the other hand, just because someone spends a lot of money on a 1911, doesn't mean it's going to be a perfect gun, just that the odds are greater. There is nothing wrong with a RI, or a Tisas, either.
I depends on what makes you happy.
Some like the fact that a gun is made here in the States.

I don't have any experience with any other models so I can't comment on them but I really like my Ruger SR 1911.

1911's on a Budget

Please see postings #70 and 81.

If I were to buy 2 new 1911's today,it would be RIA GI (mudder) and Rem. R1 (tighter paper puncher).
Of course I'm always open to any used 1911 good bargain.

Winkman822 said:

And if you look at the tolerances of the 1911's that were mass produced to fulfill government contracts, they were a whole lot looser than even the most basic of modern production 1911s...and don't forget that the military services had armorers to services the guns when they did not run properly. I'd venture a guess that a first time 1911 buyer out of the gate isn't going to be familiar enough with the platform to track down the causes of relatively common function problems with mass produced 1911s. And yes, I include higher priced 1911s from the likes of Smith & Wesson, Kimber, Colt, and Springfield in there as well.

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Modern CNC machines hold tolerances just fine for mass production. It's not uncommon for +/- .0005" with modern tooling. Plus I doubt very much that armorers were working on a high percentage of the nearly 2 million 1911s produced during WW II. I get the hand fitting for more accuracy but don't believe it increases reliability. That can actually work quite the opposite by not being able to run the gun dirty or not having enough clearance for proper heat expansion. I am no expert on the 1911 but I do know my fair share about machining parts to close tolerances. I've also done quite a lot of hand filing and polishing of machined surfaces to get parts to fit. People told me the same thing when I bought my Lamber o/u and my Del Ton AR. I am quite pleased with both and my Ruger SR 1911.

1911 Tolerances

I'll take a good old "rattler" any day.
Oh, by the way, Kimber and others had a good thing going "for them" for awhile. High expense, but some found them an unsatisfactory product.
Sorry, didn't mean to offend any Kimber likers.
To each his own.
Just my spin on it.

I agree with you Gun Master. I'll take an old 'battle rattle' or the RIA pistols that I own.

Bought a Girsan 1911 S with TAC rail through BudsGunShop for $419 plus FFL Fee.
This guns is awsome!

I've generally heard only good things about the Philippines-made 1911's (e.g. RIA). I think even Hickock45 made a video extolling their virtues.
The only odd counterpoint I've read was, when reviewing the Clark Gun website prior to having some work done on my S&W 1911PC, they explicitly state that they won't work on guns made there. I don't know if it's because they are lesser quality and they won't be able to guarantee their work, or it's a social status thing, or something else. Just mentioning it.
B

dakota1911 said:

A Ruger SR1911 on sale would be at about $600. After that cheaper SAs and many RIAs. Have heard some good things about Turkish guns, but have not owned one yet.

I you, a relative, or good friend know what to look for in a used 1911 then the used market would open up options.

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I have a SS Regent and it has been a quality gun in every respect. The mags included are not very good. But it really likes Mil surplus and new good mags. It is on a par with the Ruger, but not quite as classy. I paid just under $500 including TX sales tax. The dealer also gave life time warranty as part of the deal. Note the Regent is a "series 80" style where the Ruger is a "series70" style.

I must second this! 2500 rounds now, Mostly JHPs hand rolled. Original mag needed compressed for a couple weeks. Added a Chip McCormich 10 rd mag that has been flawless.

The Turks are making some very fine weapons! Mine was $369 and it is one of the favorites in my stable. I'd rather shoot it than my 92fs any day!

http://www.gunsinternational.com/IAC-1911-A1-45ACP-PISTOL.cfm?gun_id=100489207

Consider it. I just added walnut grips for 16 bucks to replace the plastic that came with it 4 yrs ago. I lube the crap out of it and it shoots perfect. I'm a righty, and own no other gun that I can hit lefty like this one. But that's part of 1911. Natural grip like no other.

I added a bright neaon red to the front sight and did a bright white (Glock style) U on the back of the statdard GI sights because my eyes just aren't what they used to be. Now one of my favs!!

Think about it.

Eb1 said:

Why do people say budget and 1911 don't go well together? I have a Turkish Tisas 1911 GI model, and I have shot 2000 rounds of ball ammo through the gun. It is dead on accurate out to 50 yards as any GI Model should be with fixed sights. From zero to 25 yards, and you are shooting 2 1/2 to 3 inch groups easy off hand, and they gun hasn't had one malfunction.
I paid less than $400 for the gun and two mags extra. I don't understand the comments. They seem more like rumors.

So yeah. A Turkish 1911 GI Model using Mec-gar mags shoots very well for me. Very, very well.

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Ruger SR 1911. New ones are going for $699 in my area. You could pick up a good used one for less. Mine is very accurate and reliable. Shoots factory ammo and reloads flawlessly. A great gun for the money.

RIA gives the most bang for the buck in low priced 1911s

I just bought a Springfield Loaded (with Trijicon NS)for $738.00. Second one I've owned and think they are good to go straight out of the box. I have a couple of Colts but for bang for the buck, the Springfield give you a better value.

Just got my CDNNSPORTS email for the weekend sale. Remington R1 $470 and the R1 Stainless $525. These are American guns of good quality. Gun Tests, the publication that takes no advertising, gave the R1 an "A" rating, which they do not do that often. I own the R1 Enhanced and after 50 rounds it has not had a failure and I like it a lot. I personally could not bring myself to buy an imported 1911. I have lots of other imported guns, lots of CZs, but a 1911 should be American. Just my opinion.
9 fingers

I chose the STI Spartan at that price point. Serves me well as my competition backup gun.

The low cost basic design is serviceable. My Norinco originally cost me $300 and has been reliable and accurate. Just like the GI guns that served the US military for 74 years.

To say that the design needs to be tightened and upgraded with special parts is really an insult to the gun's designer. * * *

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No one's disputing JMB's "basic design."

What you and some others here are missing is that A LOT depends on who is putting these guns together.

Both my Colt 1915 M1911 and Colt 1918 M1911 will shoot without a hitch all day every day.
The reason these old-school, WW1-era 1911s still run is because the armorers who built them knew what they were doing, knew every inch of what these guns were about operationally, and most importantly, they took pride in their work - unlike today's inexperienced, union-rate factory rats who are employed to "assemble" 1911s from pre-made MIM parts, but who, unfortunately, are more interested in perusing their social media devices during work-hours than keeping their eyeballs on Q.C. ...