Sighting In: What am I doing wrong?

I disagree that all bore sighters are garbage. i use a Wheeler Engineering Professional magnetic unit (attaches to the end of the bore). It has a green laser that's very powerful. I used it to get close with a new rifle at 75 yards, in daylight, and I found it was dead on once I got to the range.

I do agree that the "bullet" style chamber units are worthless.

why you say 160 yds is the effective range for hunting with the 30-30?

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The usual limiting factor is that most cup and core bullets require at least 1800 FPS at impact (and many require 2000) in order to expand properly. That's not to say you can't kill a deer, as you have shown. You can also do the same with a cast lead bullet, as many have. But if you can use something with a bit more zip, it's more reliable and humane at those ranges.

We now return to our regularly scheduled program. Pardon the digression.

jmr40 said:

#1 throw all of the bore sight tools in the trash.

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I have to disagree with this. Cheap bore sight tools should be thrown in the trash. High quality optical boresighters using expanding arbors get you fairly close to center at 50 yards, and can be an extremely helpful tool.

Assuming all the scope hardware is tight and properly installed, sighting in a scope can be accurately accomplished without the use of expensive bore sighting gadgets.

There are several basic and very effective methods that have worked 100% for me over the years.

The first, and probably the most commonly applied method is to start at 25 - 100 yds., and if the rifle is on the paper at all, simply adjust the windage and elevation until your sighted in at that range. Then step it out to the distance desired while fine tuning as necessary. However, if the rifle isn't on the paper at all, bore sighting it first to get it on paper will be necessary. Adjustments will correlate according to how far away you are. If for instance you are 25 yards away, each moa will have a value of .25" (1/4"), .5" (1/2") @ 50 yards, .75" (3/4") @ 75 yards, and 1.0" @ 100 yards.

As noted above, using a stable rest or bags, remove the bolt and look through the bore at 50 - 100 yards. Locate the aiming point on the target through the bore, then adjust the windage and elevation until both the reticle snd bore are centered on the target.

And another method that works well also, is to turn the windage and elevation turrets until they stop, don't use brute force when bottoming out, stop as soon as you feel resistance to avoid damaging the the optic. Then from stop, count how many clicks to the opposite stop, devide the number of clicks by two, then bring it back to that number. In other words, if stop to stop is say 28 clicks, you would turn the turret back from stop 14 clicks, that would be center. Do that with both the elevation and windage, shoot one at the target, it should at least be on paper and then adjust as necessary for the distance desired. This has worked extremely well for me, but if the receiver, bases, or rings aren't centered to begin with, this method may not work very well and may require close distance papering it at 25 yds. to accomplish sighting it in, or by using the first method above.

If none of the above methods are effective, you'll need to start at a distance that at least gets it on the paper, 10 yds. should be close enough to accomplish this, then take it out in 25 yd. increments, adjusting until sighted in to the desired distance. I can't ever recall having to resort to this method, but my brother in law once had an old Mauser he had tapped for bases, but it wasn't done with much precision, so it required having to start at extremely close distance.

GS

I guess one man's garbage is another man's treasure. I have a old Bushnell boresighter that I have been using for an easy 25 years. I would not think of trying to mount a scope without it. As for your scope being level. I have done this at 100 yards. Get as big a piece of cardboard as you can 72" works well. Stake it at 100 yards and drop a plumb line down the center to one of those red stickon targets. Stay sighted in on the stickon and start adding elevation to your scope setting. If your scope is "level" you should stay on the plumb line.

As some others have said, do away with bore sighters, find out if you are even getting groups, and check all components of the gun as in scope mounts, barrel, action screws, etc. Anything loose will throw you everywhere. If you have a good quality bore sighter, then it might be okay, but ive never had luck. Looking down the barrel has always served me well. Depending on how accurate your paticular gun is and how precise your methods are, you can technically zero in one shot. One shot on paper and you simply use that shot as a reference point while your gun is rock solid to move your crosshairs too via turret adjustments.

I assure you, I have experience in the matter of loose parts though. Even though I was planning on doing it anyways, my brand new savage m11 only shot good for awhile, and then went downhill. I was cloverleafing with my other guns and so I knew it wasn't just me.Turns out after I had already decided to go ahead and get started on my build off the action ahead of schedule and ordered close to 5-600$ worth of materials to get me started(barrel, tools, upgraded components, etc), it was a loose scope base incorrectly torqued at the factory. The gun came completely assembled I think, and for sure with the bases installed. A 5 minute disassembly after trouble occured would have caught the visibly loose base screws and who knows, maybe I would have come to my senses and just bought another gun completely and kept this one as it is. Ill be happy either way though...

eagle359 said:

I guess one man's garbage is another man's treasure. I have a old Bushnell boresighter that I have been using for an easy 25 years. I would not think of trying to mount a scope without it. As for your scope being level. I have done this at 100 yards. Get as big a piece of cardboard as you can 72" works well. Stake it at 100 yards and drop a plumb line down the center to one of those red stickon targets. Stay sighted in on the stickon and start adding elevation to your scope setting. If your scope is "level" you should stay on the plumb line.

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Eagle, Ive seen that method before, but how do you know if your scope is really mounted level or if your gun is just canted to adjust for the levelness? I am still contemplating on how to do that and it seems that the only good way is taking level off the bases assuming they are quality machined while the gun is in a vice to hold it at the desired angle. After that, it would seem its just a matter of getting the scope installed with a level ontop of the turret.

Id be interested to see how you deal with that. Ive yet to try it, but I sure like to read lots about it . Regardless, Ill definitely be using your method to attach the scope level so that I dont have to worry about it while in the field.

LR I feel your pain. The boresighter that I have is called a collimator by Bushnell. It is the one with the spud that goes into the bore. When you look through the scope you see a grid in the collimator. The grid has a heavy vertical line down the center of the grid. All I do is line up my vertical crosshair with that grid line as best I can. It seems to work. I have seen people use all sorts of methods to get the scope "level". If there are that many solutions, I have to feel that none are really working. The boresighter that I have does a good enough job for me. On the plumb line some of my scopes may be off as much as two inches at the top of the elevation-for most of my shooting that is not a problem. For the few varmint guns that I have I will try to fine tune the windage. If you are not adjusting your elevation in your scope and just using a holdover the problem seems less. If your are adjusting your elevation using the scope adjustments-the problem seems to be greater. As far as canting your rifle-when I shoulder a rifle and it feels good in the natural shoulder pocket, there is a cant. To take the cant out I need to rotate the toe in a bit. Hope some of this helps, but you may need to talk to somebody smarter than me.

ku4hx said:

Get on the paper at 25 yards ... big piece of paper. Then move the group to where you want it to hit at 25 yards ... POA=POI for me. Then shoot at a 100 yard target and move the group as needed.

What many people fail to understand is the bullet seldom goes exactly where the bore is pointing. Not only that, but a rifle that will print a 1/2" group at 100 yards dead center of the "X" ring will likely have a different POI if you change bullet. Even if it's the same weight and same configuration, your POI can move several inches. My Remington 700 will print <1" all day with IMR 4350 and Hornady Interlock Spire points. When I went to a Speer Grand Slam (all else the same) the group opened up to 5-6" at 100 yards. For that bullet, I had to change powder; went H414.

The lesson to be learned: different bullets shoot to various POIs and seldom is that precisely where the bore is pointing.

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For newly mounted scopes I start at 25 yards. It just saves me frustration. I also torque check all the various screws and am a big fan of purple or blue Locktight. After installs are done, I also take a pencile and scribe lines on the scope were the rings are attached to the scope. That way, if the scope moves, I can easily see it.

Keep it simple, like jmr40. I modify his method (post #5) by adding a small flashlight out at about 50 yards or thereabouts. Point the light at the rifle. Look down the bore at the light and align the reticle on the light. Good to go. It helps to have the rifle secured in a cleaning stand or vice. It's all free - that's the best part.

Assuming your rifle is on paper, it is possible to zero with one round. Secure your rifle with sandbags so it won't move. Shoot it. Without moving the rifle, turn dials on turrets until crosshairs are on bullet hole. John Jardine taught me that. He can't recall who he heard it from.

I prefer an appropriate sized screw driver personally, but beyond that I don't know of another way to turn them.

-Jenrick

Mike T said:

OK, I've learned my lesson. I may not trash the bore sighters, but I won't be using them anymore. Tomorrow, I'm going to see how my 70-year-old eyes do looking do looking down a .22 caliber bore.

I don't understand why these gadgets are so popular if they work so poorly.

Thanks all for your help. Good lesson learned.

Mike

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Some work better than others. I use a laser with interchangeable plastic tips that are adjustable with a set screw in the tip. You tighten, and slowly losen until you can just force it into the bore. At night, my back fence gives me a 25 yard target. It is super easy while standing offhand to adjust the scope until the laser dot is centered. Using this method has me within 6" at 100 for the 6+ rifles I have bore sighted with it. It definitely works better than my old-school Columnater. I've also had good luck pulling the bolt and sighting through the bore. A streetlight up the street 100 yards or so is easy to center through the bore, and a few turns of the turrets gets me right on paper. I do this resting the rifle on the back of a chair. Just make sure to do it from a dark room, otherwise the neighbors might have a cow.