RCBS 7 station Press, How to use the stations?

I haven't seen one in person but I highly doubt it allows you to use different stations for priming (like 2 or 3 in your examples).

Peter,

For pistol loads on a 7 stage progressive, I would lean towards your second option.

For rifle, the only rifle loads I do on a progressive are for AR fodder. A 7 station press would be a waste. Currently I do use all 5 stations on my Pro 2000 for AR loads, but only 4 have dies.
1) Size/deprime (including expander - good enough runout for govt. work)
2) Prime (no die at this station)
3) Powder dump
4) Powder check die
5) Seat

I prefer to use an expander die to expand the case mouth as opposed to the PTX in the powder measure. Also, I prefer to crimp in a separate step from seating bullet.

Given those preferences, the seven station press would make that a possibility.

In both instances, I get better control and adjustment of the secondary operation such as mouth expanding and crimping.

I am planning to go to the NRA shindig in Nashville at the end of the week. Hopefully, RCBS will have the ProChuckers there to drool over. I am interested in the indexing system.

Jmorris is right, look at this picture:



The wedge-shaped rear support has a station on either side of it, #1 on the left, where cases are fed either manually or with a case feeder.
Then clock-wise to the right side of the wedge (picture below) is station #2 where the tube primer feed and shuttle is.



As far as expanding rifle, my choice would be to:
Deprime off press, wet tumble, then trim & otherwise case prep, then lube.
Then on the press in #1 size, using a modified sizer honed in the neck to .002" under bullet size (expander ball removed).

Such a sizer would work the brass minimally (one time) and unlike bushings would size all the neck. Yes you would have to buy and hone a sizer for different kinds of brass, so keep it simple and only buy one or two kinds of brass per caliber. BTW Forster will hone their sizers for $10 or so. Otherwise you just buy a Flex Hone the proper size and use a drill. Nothing makes straighter brass than that. Flex Hones (watch the video & read how to buy the right size)
One source.

Unless you prime off press #2 has to prime. Nothing says you couldn't use a lube die/deprimer on one and size and prime on #2 if you plan not to case prep, I suppose.

I am interested in putting one on my bench, especially with the case feeder and bullet feeder options.

Most of my loading is 9x19, so having a dedicated setup for that caliber would make that job go even smoother and faster if it is a no-hands approach when loading.

With the bulk of prepping and loading being done on my Dillon 550, the 7-stage setup would be a dream. My 650 does OK, but I think I could get more ammo produced in less time with the RCBS rig.

Good pics GW where did you take them? At first I thought they might be SHOT show photos but then noticed the dropped primer in the second photo, thought they were just loading dummy rounds in Vegas.

My 650 does OK, but I think I could get more ammo produced in less time with the RCBS rig.

Click to expand...

What feature do you think would help the most?

jmorris said:

Good pics GW where did you take them? At first I thought they might be SHOT show photos but then noticed the dropped primer in the second photo, thought they were just loading dummy rounds in Vegas.



What feature do you think would help the most?

Click to expand...

The bullet feeder setup #2 listed above will add to the improved experience. Not knocking the 650 at all, as I am aware of the aftermarket bullet feeder options. However, I would like to get a complete setup from the same manufacturer to use as a dedicated system for my 9x19 loads.

jmorris said:

Good pics GW where did you take them? At first I thought they might be SHOT show photos but then noticed the dropped primer in the second photo, thought they were just loading dummy rounds in Vegas.

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Both are shot show pictures and both are in the first thread here. Perhaps someone from RCBS loaded some rounds after hours for some VIP.....who knows. I wish I was invited to the shot show......but I probably wouldn't have gone, unless someone from RCBS leaked the coming of Pro Chuckers to me first! That would never happen (I have zero minus pull at RCBS).

I take it that no one here has tried honing a bottleneck sizer neck? Sounds pretty easy....I'm going to give it a try....based on the benchresters I know who do it instead of neck sizing or using bushing dies these days and swear by it.

Anyone can go to the SHOT show but it has been a few years since I have been there, no invite required.

If I am doing something that requires precision, I try to turn the OD then bore and or ream the ID before it s ever removed from the chuck.

Peter M. Eick said:

I wonder if you can move the case eject spring clip from where it is shown on GW's pictures to one station further back? IE could you change where you load the case into the die plate to where it is currently ejecting it from????

I kind of see that I am quickly getting back to wondering how I can use this machine to my advantage? The uplift is coming down to expanding separate from dispense powder.

Click to expand...

I think the eject wire is pointing in the wrong direction in the first pic in GWS' post #5. I believe it should be pointing more toward the station just to the right of it in the pic.

I noticed something else interesting, maybe. If you look closely at the pics, it looks like the right side of the rear frame post (as seen from the front of the press) doesn't angle like the left side does. The primer shuttle looks like it hits the shell plate support head at an obtuse angle, not radial to the shell plate like the case feed ramp on the other side. So, maybe it isn't aiming directly at the ram like we previously thought. If so, I'm putting money on GWS to come up with a mod to use APS primer strips. Probably just wishful thinking. I really hate that RCBS didn't incorporate APS priming into the new press.

jmorris said:

If I am doing something that requires precision, I try to turn the OD then bore and or ream the ID before it s ever removed from the chuck.

Click to expand...

Yes, but you're talking about turning, boring, or reaming the brass after sizing. The problem has always been sizing and then pulling the expander ball out of the over-sized neck, and thus too often, pulling the neck off, concentrically, from the case body. The only fix for such disoriented necks is firing the round and starting over. Bushing dies then came along to overcome that...except that they can't size the entire length of the neck. Not only that, some runout is allowed by the looseness of the bushings.

Honing inside a die, the length of the neck, opens it up just enough that you only size the brass once.....no bushing no expander ball. You just seat. The advantage is obvious........except for one little problem. Change brass and you have to hone another die. Neck thickness does matter....a lot. That said, I'd think some of your I.S. reaming of the case after sizing would remedy some of that.

The reason I mentioned this method is Pete's desire to expand separately. What if you don't have to expand at all.......gives you back that station.

Pete said,

To me, the 7 stations gives me the ability to do crimping in two steps instead of one like I can on the pro2000. It also allows me more options on precision with the expansion by not doing it at the same time as powder dispense.

Click to expand...

I'm not convinced that expanding separately is helpful. You'd still pull it off center with a ball expander and not expand all the neck with a bushing.....and can you even buy such outside the sizer die anyway?

For Rifle then:
1) Lube die/Deprime
2) Size and prime
3) Charge with Powder
4) Powder Check
5) Bullet Feeder if you want.
6) Seat
7) Crimp if you want.

If you don't use a lube die.....you don't need station 7.

Higgite observed something I didn't! He's right, the angle in the casting support is only on the case feed side! The primer side is parallel to the square base. As for a future mod from me? I have my doubts. That looks to be a little beyond my basic skill set.......now if jmorris could be converted to bleed green.....there might be a chance.

Re rifle case neck expanders, hopefully not getting too far off topic: I had some Forster FLS dies honed out at the factory to reduce the amount the necks were sized, thus reducing the amount they had to be expanded on the way out of the die. I did it more for brass life than for runout, though. Runout was acceptable to me beforehand and still is after honing. Forster recommended not exceeding .248" for the .223 die and not exceeding .333" for the .308 die. They claim the dies start to get out of round when they exceed those ID's. Different manufacturers may have different limits, I don't know.

I have heard proponents of separate neck expanders claim that runout is minimized by having the expander compressing the neck (that is, pushing down it) on the way into the case as opposed to pulling on the neck like standard expanders on FLS dies. I've not tried it myself, so can't say. Just passing along what I overheard the big boys say.

Would be interesting to know for sure what kind of honing tool Forster uses. The diamond hones I think they use are more rigid....rigid means more possibility for not following the existing center. Using the numbers you say they suggested wouldn't be enough honing to do what I've heard is being done by benchresters. People have done this since the '50's, old timers using dowels and valve grinding paste.....being super rigid, I'd bet with some of that out of rounding you mentioned.

Here's a link for those interested in Forster's implementation. http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/reloading/fl-bushing-dies-vs-honed-fl-dies/

BTW you can buy the hones I linked to above at Brownells too, but for a lot more money. (for other purposes too).

Interesting link: RCBS uses Flex Hones making their dies in the first place.

Peter M. Eick said:

I wonder if you can move the case eject spring clip from where it is shown on GW's pictures to one station further back? IE could you change where you load the case into the die plate to where it is currently ejecting it from????

Click to expand...

You'd have to drill two more holes in the plate and tap one of them. One for the wire, and one for the set screw.

Then you'd have to remove the case keeper spring on the plate and move it to the other station......and then there is the finished cartridge ramp.....don't know how that's attached.....or whether it's even moveable.

It would be a fine thing if RCBS sees a need to refine their new toy with such versatility, wouldn't it? Maybe we can help.

when someone actually see's a Pro Chucker7 for sale, let us know. Are they actually in production yet? 7 stations would be nice.

They have been available for a while now.

But at $900(7 station) not a lot of takers out there I guess.

They have been available for a while now.

Click to expand...

Any examples? I understood it was held back for completion of the case feeder design.

Yes, but you're talking about turning, boring, or reaming the brass after sizing.

Click to expand...

I was actually referring to your question about honing dies.

Okay then, I'm a little dense, sorry. I guess I don't understand what you mean by the following:

jmorris said:

If I am doing something that requires precision, I try to turn the OD then bore and or ream the ID before it s ever removed from the chuck.

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You aren't describing turning, boring, or reaming brass necks for accuracy? Confused.

That part I understand. Cutting the O.D. of a die I understand less. That's why I thought he was talking about turning brass necks. His skill with machines was never in doubt. I doubt there's very many metal wizards better.

I have no problem expanding after powder dump, which does include a mild PTX setting, since it injects powder rather than leaks around a funnel. There is just enough to activate the powder measure.

You aren't describing turning, boring, or reaming brass necks for accuracy? Confused.

Click to expand...

No, brass in almost all cases (pardon the pun) is stamped. Almost never perfect and too thin and "springy". Turning then generally involves an arbor that locates the (many times reamed ID) to hold dimentions based on thickness.

I was referring to dimentions on a machined die.

For example it is pretty easy to thread the end of a barrel after the bore is machined (just chuck it back up in the lathe) but a lot more difficult to make sure the threads are perfectly concentric with the bore (involves a 4 jaw chuck and indicator and you are still going to have runout). If both are done at the same time, not being removed from the chuck, it is a lot easier (part never moved from ID to OD). In a perfect world a lathe with a 3 jaw chuck or collet will always chuck a round part perfectly centered, any one that has a lathe knows the world is not perfect.

Running a hone down the bore of a die will make it larger but on what axis? Will it be the same in all directions, right, left, up, down and will the mouth be the same as the center or other end?

The device in post #15 won't do them all near as precise as a part with all machine work done at one time. It is just designed to make it larger.