Yeah I think we all agree the gun grabbers are driving the spike in gun interest. There was some growth in the gun industry before 2009 but nothing like it's been since then. Clearly the attempts to take away our rights drove the purchase of record numbers of guns.
If you want to know why ammo is still scarce...
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Yeah I think we all agree the gun grabbers are driving the spike in gun interest. There was some growth in the gun industry before 2009 but nothing like it's been since then. Clearly the attempts to take away our rights drove the purchase of record numbers of guns.
Gun sales may be soaring, but they are mostly being bought by people who already own lots of guns. The claim that new people are buying guns is not true in my observation. I am a member of a huge club with 2000 members yet every time I shoot I just see the same small group of older men.
tark
Member
CZ, didn't the Supreme court already rule Twice in our favor? The case in Chicago had Clarence Thomas writing for the Majority, and his opinion clearly spelled out the following: The court had determined that the right to own a firearm was an individual right, for individual citizens in good standing, and guaranteed by the Second Amendment, irrespective of and not related to, membership in any military organization.
In other and simpler words, he said that Amendment II means exactly what we say it does. Game, set, match. Now that I am done with my off- topic rant, i'll get back on topic.
I think CZ is right. Probably the biggest reason ammo, (.22) is so scarce is because everyone is buying guns, and an awful lot of them are .22s. In Illinois, only 22 ammo is hard to find on dealers shelves. It is easy to find at the gun shows, if you want to pay $50 a brick. And it is mostly foreign ammo.
I've got three thousand rounds. That is enough for me. Hopefully, our next President will be an elephant, not a jackass.
In other and simpler words, he said that Amendment II means exactly what we say it does. Game, set, match. Now that I am done with my off- topic rant, i'll get back on topic.
I think CZ is right. Probably the biggest reason ammo, (.22) is so scarce is because everyone is buying guns, and an awful lot of them are .22s. In Illinois, only 22 ammo is hard to find on dealers shelves. It is easy to find at the gun shows, if you want to pay $50 a brick. And it is mostly foreign ammo.
I've got three thousand rounds. That is enough for me. Hopefully, our next President will be an elephant, not a jackass.
danez71
Member
What about all of the new CCW permits?
New CCW holders are either:
1) Existing shooters that just got a CCW. Existing shooters round counts are fairly level. = Not many, if any, more rounds are being shot.
OR
2) New shooters - New shooters generally = lower round counts.
I just don't see how new CCW'ers would be substantial enough to tip the scales.
Besides.... it seems like most people are agreeing that the only consistent round in short supply is 22lr. That's surely isn't CCW related.
Anything that is reloader related and in consistent short supply is surely not 'new CCW' related either. (I'm not a reloader so I don't know if anything is in short supply... still)
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Zendude
Member
I think part of the increase in gun sales and CC licenses is that more women are choosing to carry. I live in a big city and I see many women at the pistol ranges. Women are increasingly taking responsibility for their own personal safety.
Last Knight
Member
I can at least partially vouch for this. Took a CC class recently (long time owner, newbie carrier) and 2/3 of the class were female, most of whom were there alone or with a female friend.
jamesjames
Member
to summarize...
A lot of new guns were manufactured and purchased in the last several years. This can be attributed both to new shooters and old gunnies adding to their collections.
A lot of .22 firearms have sold. Many shooters, old and new shoot .22 for a variety of reasons. New shooters need some trigger time just to get proficient. Old shooters like .22 for a variety of reasons. With no new production capacity but more demand, .22 continues to be scarce in many places for many reasons.
Some pistol fodder and .223/5.56 tends to be scarce with the occasional BATF scare to make it disappear. But as we draw down from 2 wars and every federal agency tops off their storage capacity, even pistol and AR ammo will become more available.
.22 ammo scarcity may be the new normal as demand continues to be high while production and supply are not increasing.
Pistol powders and reloading supplies are scarce, while rifle powders, primers and most center fire rifle cartridges are available.
I have personally bounced around, rotating between .44 special, .38 special, 9 mm, and 40 SW when they are available. Out here on the Oregon Coast, we are at the end of the supply chain and still see acute shortages in .22, popular pistol calibers, and AR fodder. My brother stopped in Idaho Falls on a cross country trip to find me .22 match fodder for my son's 4-H small bore rifle competitions this season. .22 disappears from the local Walmart and Bi-Mart shelves minutes after it is put out each week.
A lot of new guns were manufactured and purchased in the last several years. This can be attributed both to new shooters and old gunnies adding to their collections.
A lot of .22 firearms have sold. Many shooters, old and new shoot .22 for a variety of reasons. New shooters need some trigger time just to get proficient. Old shooters like .22 for a variety of reasons. With no new production capacity but more demand, .22 continues to be scarce in many places for many reasons.
Some pistol fodder and .223/5.56 tends to be scarce with the occasional BATF scare to make it disappear. But as we draw down from 2 wars and every federal agency tops off their storage capacity, even pistol and AR ammo will become more available.
.22 ammo scarcity may be the new normal as demand continues to be high while production and supply are not increasing.
Pistol powders and reloading supplies are scarce, while rifle powders, primers and most center fire rifle cartridges are available.
I have personally bounced around, rotating between .44 special, .38 special, 9 mm, and 40 SW when they are available. Out here on the Oregon Coast, we are at the end of the supply chain and still see acute shortages in .22, popular pistol calibers, and AR fodder. My brother stopped in Idaho Falls on a cross country trip to find me .22 match fodder for my son's 4-H small bore rifle competitions this season. .22 disappears from the local Walmart and Bi-Mart shelves minutes after it is put out each week.
How do you know these things? It certainly makes sense that more CCW's means more shooters are around and more guns sold to more shooters equals more ammo being shot. I know it's not a completely provable connection but it seems very solid to me. I don't think re-hashing the same points will change anyone's POV here. Unless I see some facts that indicate there aren't more people shooting (and the facts I do see say the opposite) I'm not going to change my mind on this so count me as believing a lot of new shooters caused a shortage in the one round most new shooters use - the .22.
danez71
Member
Simple. There are only 2 choices.
New ccw'ers are either new shooters or existing shooters.
rallyhound
Member
Ignition Override
Member
What ammo is scarce?
Have you used engines such as Gunbot or Ammoseek?
Many kinds of .22LR have been available, even during the last panic. The OP's question said nothing about prices for .22LR, or anything else.
Those worried about potential govt. tracking of purchases can buy over-priced ammo FTF with cash at a gun show, other than in the Peoples' Republik states.
Have you used engines such as Gunbot or Ammoseek?Many kinds of .22LR have been available, even during the last panic. The OP's question said nothing about prices for .22LR, or anything else.
Those worried about potential govt. tracking of purchases can buy over-priced ammo FTF with cash at a gun show, other than in the Peoples' Republik states.
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We've got more women in our extended family licensed than men.
How many millions of CC holders have to re-qualify plus simply practice several times a year? Our Daughter has emptied my ammo can several times. I'm lucky to have a full mag in my nightstand pistol.
I've also seen a real upsurge in "gun games" such as combat shoots using all formats of firearms from pistol...shotgun and rifle. Leagues have been formed and gun ranges are holding competitions between themselves. Pistol ammo...powders...and components are just now catching up.Our sport is the new "bowling league"
krimmie
Member
There is NO .22LR ammo to be found in my area, and prices on line are outrageous. I reload, and just shoot center fire now.What ammo is scarce?
Many kinds of .22LR have been available, even during the last panic. The OP's question said nothing about prices for .22LR, or anything else.
Those worried about potential govt. tracking of purchases can buy over-priced ammo FTF with cash at a gun show, other than in the Peoples' Republik states.
Ash
Member
A huge jump in gun sales correlates to no 22lr ammo out there only if that huge jump is in 22lr firearms. Hoarding is a major reason it is hard to get. I know I got a bunch and get it cheap whenever I can. There was a time I would get 22lr only when I planned on shooting because it was always easy to get and was always cheap. That meant that the ammo I did buy was centerfire - bought it cheap, stacked it deep. Now, I get .22lr when I can. I'm not really hoarding it - I have given it to my nephews who can't seem to find it and shared a fair amount of it. But, I am buying it. How many here are doing the same? We are driving the demand because we demand it. This entire thread is evidence.
I see plenty of .22LR on Ammotogo, Ammoman, etc., but no CCI Mini-Mag. I just refuse to pay the same price as 9mm for cheaply made .22LR.
When's the last time anyone here saw 40 grain, copper clad CCI Mini-Mag? And, was it $20 a sleeve (100) or more?
When's the last time anyone here saw 40 grain, copper clad CCI Mini-Mag? And, was it $20 a sleeve (100) or more?
Last Knight
Member
At my local gun store, and yes.
danez71
Member
At my local gun/fishing store about 4 months ago. They had 11 sleeves of 100 at the time which was about 30 after they put it out around 1pm on Thursday. The store wasn't busy. $10. ea.
But they don't get nearly the qty they used to. And there isn't any consistency to brand.
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I saw some and bought some not more than a couple of months ago. I just bought some other CCI. I could have bought all the Mini-mag I wanted really because I don't shoot that much of it. I still have a good supply in the safe. I only paid about $11 for 100 rounds of it too. I paid less than that for the CCI Sub-Sonic I bought recently. They have a limit at the store I bought the CCI but there's another gun shop within a mile of that one that has more .22 for sale. I could easily buy all I wanted to shoot but I don't like paying even $10 for 100 rounds.
Delford
Member
I went to the gun show today with my friend. Most ammo sellers were overpriced vs. Walmart and 22lr was priced out of reach. My friend bought some .44 magnum and .357 from Georgia Arms and paid fair prices. There were also 2 local large scale reloaders selling at decent prices like $160 for 500 rounds of .45 ACP.
Last time I bought .22lr at Walmart it was after a promotion no one knew about. I got 300 rounds of CCI for $.075 a round. If you shop Academy.com you might find Federal for the same price after shipping. Their stores always have some but usually too high (12 cents a round is too high).
I practice with.45 ACP because I carry and shoot .22lr because it's distracting and relaxing. Each outing is about 100 rounds of each, altho .22lr goes faster.
Last time I bought .22lr at Walmart it was after a promotion no one knew about. I got 300 rounds of CCI for $.075 a round. If you shop Academy.com you might find Federal for the same price after shipping. Their stores always have some but usually too high (12 cents a round is too high).
I practice with.45 ACP because I carry and shoot .22lr because it's distracting and relaxing. Each outing is about 100 rounds of each, altho .22lr goes faster.
W.E.G.
Member
.22 is in high demand for two reasons:
1. Genuine hoarding.
2. Tons and tons of semi-auto AR15-type rifles all hitting the market at once.
Anybody who thinks .22 LR is going to be the "new currency" is delusional.
Those types ARE out there, but the total number is not large enough to begin to account for the volume that IS accountable to factors 1 and 2.
Manufacturers will eventually catch up to meet sustainable demand.
The current level of demand exceeds the sustainable level.
Don't expect ten new factories chunking-out .22 LR.
Maybe one or two.
1. Genuine hoarding.
2. Tons and tons of semi-auto AR15-type rifles all hitting the market at once.
Anybody who thinks .22 LR is going to be the "new currency" is delusional.
Those types ARE out there, but the total number is not large enough to begin to account for the volume that IS accountable to factors 1 and 2.
Manufacturers will eventually catch up to meet sustainable demand.
The current level of demand exceeds the sustainable level.
Don't expect ten new factories chunking-out .22 LR.
Maybe one or two.
DHJenkins
Member
In 2013, there were nearly for times as many NFA firearms processed as there were in 2005.
Also, the 3-4M guns/year number goes all the way back to 1986, with a 2-year 5M total unit spike in '93 & '94.
Here's the 2014 Firearms Commerce ASU report: http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/fi...s_commerce_annual_statistical_report_2014.pdf
As far as the scarcity of centerfire ammo, that seems to be settling down, as well as the prices. Looking at emails from last year, for example, 9mm ammo prices are over 30% lower (and there's plenty of it); and the price per round is actually cheaper than it was 10 years ago. Granted, I'm comparing Academy 50rd boxes to bulk online prices (same brand), but the price is the price.
.22lr still hasn't made a comeback, but I imagine that's because the profit margin is much higher on centerfire ammo. A 550rd box of .22lr is (was) cheaper than a 100rd box of 9mm, but needs 450% more primed cases, about 60% more lead and about 60% more powder. The manufacturing process likely costs more per box as well compared to 9mm unless the machines run 5 times as fast as their centerfire production counterparts, which I doubt.
(I got the powder amounts 1.5gr & 4.5gr from the interwebz, so it could be more/less.)
Also, the 3-4M guns/year number goes all the way back to 1986, with a 2-year 5M total unit spike in '93 & '94.
Here's the 2014 Firearms Commerce ASU report: http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/fi...s_commerce_annual_statistical_report_2014.pdf
As far as the scarcity of centerfire ammo, that seems to be settling down, as well as the prices. Looking at emails from last year, for example, 9mm ammo prices are over 30% lower (and there's plenty of it); and the price per round is actually cheaper than it was 10 years ago. Granted, I'm comparing Academy 50rd boxes to bulk online prices (same brand), but the price is the price.
.22lr still hasn't made a comeback, but I imagine that's because the profit margin is much higher on centerfire ammo. A 550rd box of .22lr is (was) cheaper than a 100rd box of 9mm, but needs 450% more primed cases, about 60% more lead and about 60% more powder. The manufacturing process likely costs more per box as well compared to 9mm unless the machines run 5 times as fast as their centerfire production counterparts, which I doubt.
(I got the powder amounts 1.5gr & 4.5gr from the interwebz, so it could be more/less.)
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