Impressed with PS90

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I hate you guys.

I had just gotten over a spree of interest in the 5.7x28 guns. Thanks for kicking it off again.
 
I have looked at those 10-22 stocks that look like the PS90. I bought a S&W 15-22 carbine two months ago. I considered a 10-22 with that PS90 type stock instead . In my opinion, the gun looks ridiculous once you put in the 10-22 magazine. I just couldn't do it...
 
Ammo prices are coming down in 5.7. FN brand ammo is $29 locally. Still $5 a box too high. But honestly.. That is the price of 5.56 ammo, more or less.. You just get 20 rounds per box for 5.56... For 5.7x28, ya get 50 rounds. 50 of each is around the same...
 
Nope. Not good enough. You can recover, aim, and fire 3X as fast with 5.7, so it should be 1/3rd the price of 223 (right? :eek: :D)

Mastiffhound,
That stock's pretty cool, but without the top-mounted box mag, it's just...missing something ;). Definitely shapelier than some other 10/22 stocks out there; this one rivals those cool Airsoft conversions by whats-his-name that posts here frequently (must've got my memory repossessed again :confused:)

TCB
 
RE: cost of 5.7mm ammo. The American Eagle stuff is decent enough for plinking. It is available locally here for $23.99/50 (48c a shot). I'm going to start reloading it once I find appropriate powder. Hornaday V-Max 40 gr 224 bullets run $18.99/100 on MidwayUSA. Will lower my cost per round to ~24c each with primer and powder figured in (or, $240/1000). Basically 2x the ammo for the price of factory.

When ammo was $16/50, it didn't make much sense to reload it - bullet prices haven't gone up on premium reloading bullets (not much anyway) since those days - last time I considered reloading it was $0.23/rd vs. $0.32 per round, not really worth my time. But factory ammo went up 166% the last couple of years, while reloading component costs pretty much stayed flat.

NOW it's worth reloading. (Just trying to find True Blue or comparable burn rate powders in the midwest is not easy... 5.7mm has a very narrow applicable powder range)

EDIT: I'm curious to see how my future hand-loads compare to this AE factory ammo. I'll also repeat the 50/100/200 yard course with FN factory ammo for another baseline. So this thread may get resurrected in the future as I experiment more. Any rifle that can hold up to Distinguished Expert level of accuracy in a sporting rifle course at 50-200 yards deserves a bit of development work..!
 
After examining the cartridges from my FTF's with American Eagle ammo - DO NOT TRUST THIS AMMUNITION FOR HOME / SELF DEFENSE.

The problem is some of their projectiles have a nose which is too "rounded". They hit the feed ramp on the PS90 and stop abruptly. The bullet is set back in to the casing (one of them was pushed ALL the way back in to the casing, four others were set back from .115 to .250").

Needless to say, discard any such ammunition and do not attempt a re-shoot of a bullet that's been set back. You'll blow up your expensive rifle.

I don't know if this problem carries over to the FN Five Seven handgun, it has a totally different feed system. However, it shares a sharp edged feed ramp in common with the PS90 (probably wouldn't feed 'true' hollowpoints, which is why they use the V-Max ammo on factory loads).

I would venture a guess that set-back of not-sharp-pointy-bullets may explain some of the early kabooms reloaders have had. Most FMJ bullets don't have very sharp noses. Looking at some of my Winchester and Remington bulk .224 dia bullets, those would definitely NOT work in this platform, the noses are too round. They'll get hung up on the feed ramp.

Looking forward when I do more testing on this platform I will *only* test sharp-pointy-nosed bullets such as V-Max.

EDIT: I experienced failure to feed rates of about 2% with American Eagle over the last 2 weekends, in a rifle that has had 100% reliability over 5,000+ rounds of Fiocci. I ran a couple mags of Fiocci through (cringed, even, because I can't get anymore), and it worked fine. So I'm ruling the rifle out. It's the ammo design on the AE stuff.
 
Excellent! Please keep the info coming and add to this thread as warranted.

Thanks, Trent!

I suspect that there are folks here other than just me who would buy one of these rifles if the cost of feeding would come down significantly. The additional details you are providing will just insure that as we each tumble and join the PS90 Club, we will be thoroughly educated on the important info that is not to be found in the manual.

At least, that is how *I* look at it. :)
 
Yes, at the FN Forum, there are lots of complaints about the American Eagle rounds. I bought 6-8 boxes during the ammo scare. I haven't shot them yet. Had I known of the issues some have, I never would have bought them. My PS90 is 100% with FN factory ammo.
 
The first thing I am going to do when I move to ID is buy a PS90 to match my Five-Seven. Love the platform.

BTW,, reloading is not that hard if you reload other cals proficiently. Just pay attention to charges and you will be OK. I've reloaded several thousand without issues. It's amazing how far a pound of powder goes with this round.

.
 
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Great thread Trent! Thank you for taking the time to share all this info. Loved the story about smoking the ace in your sandals LOL.

Anyway, I've always been a fan of the P90. And the Five 7 even though I have shot neither. I'm really intrigued now and may have to move these awesome platforms further up my list!

P.S. Still not sure if I can get past that extra barrel hanging off the end :/
 
Great thread Trent! Thank you for taking the time to share all this info. Loved the story about smoking the ace in your sandals LOL.

Anyway, I've always been a fan of the P90. And the Five 7 even though I have shot neither. I'm really intrigued now and may have to move these awesome platforms further up my list!

P.S. Still not sure if I can get past that extra barrel hanging off the end :/

Thanks guys.

I've been trying to get a Distinguished Expert score in highpower sporting rifle under my belt all summer, tried a bunch of different rifles, kept shooting Sharpshooter and Expert levels. Finally cracked it with this little rifle. I have to say that the PS90 just makes it EASY. There's no weight hanging off in front of your support hand so offhand shooting is a breeze and super stable. I am 100% comfortable in my ability to hit a target out to 200 yards with it standing.

I'm going to try to get the 300 yard shooting down better so I can give some decent advice on stretching it out to max range, too.

Regarding the long ugly barrel. I've got paperwork here to SBR one, after the BATF gets their laws straightened out, but man, I have to tell you - I'm a little afraid it'll lose the edge it has. When rifles shoot this good, my instinct becomes "do not change a thing." Maybe I'll redirect my first SBR money on converting over an AK pistol, instead. :)

Now that you guys bring up the FN FiveSeven handgun - I can regularly hit soda cans with it at 100 yards from a sandbag. Not every time, but every other round, maybe every 3rd round if I'm having a bad day. Those are surprisingly accurate guns, too! I haven't tried it with the American Eagle ammo yet (just want to burn through that stuff at this point). Was using the blue tips last time I shot the handgun long range (SS197) The white boxed ammo you can't get anymore flat out suuuucked in that gun - at 10 yards it patterned like a shotgun. (SS195?)
 
That's some good info on the pistol. There seems to be much more info on the pistol than the PS90. And I don't think I've ever read or heard any bad reviews other than it feels cheap (I've held both) and the aesthetics. I can't say the pistol is particularly attractive. But it's not bad. I think any firearm enthusiast gets past the looks due to the uniqueness of the weapon anyway.

There is not a ton of info that I have seen that is trustworthy on the PS90. But this thread is really shedding light into how important the right ammo is for this rifle. Again, I think the general consensus has been that it really needs the good stuff to shine. But I have not seen real world, objective data on what any of that meant in tangible results.


Oh, and on the barrel thing. I kind of agree with the performance aspect. I have no doubt the extended length is helping quite a bit. I guess if I owned one I would get used to it. Either way, I have really been re-evaluating some of my defense options/toys and the combo of the PS90/and five seven is looking REALLY appealing. Especially because of the interchangeability, and obvious under stated potency of the platforms.


On a side note: you mentioned the Eotech on the F2000 was slowing you down. I'd love to hear more on that as I have finally decided on one of those with a magnifier over an ACOG. Due to what I feel was better clarity, reticule and ease of target acquisition. If that is too far off topic, I'd love to hear from you offline.
 
Great thread!

A shooting buddy has a PS90 and it is where I learned I naturally cant a rifle. He and I had very different points of aim that we tracked down with it.

The PS90 is a lot and I mean a lot of fun to shoot. I have gone back and forth on buying one many times as it just fun to play with. Seeing this thread makes me think I should pick up the next reasonable one I see.
 
On a side note: you mentioned the Eotech on the F2000 was slowing you down. I'd love to hear more on that as I have finally decided on one of those with a magnifier over an ACOG. Due to what I feel was better clarity, reticule and ease of target acquisition. If that is too far off topic, I'd love to hear from you offline.

This would apply to one mounted on a PS90 Tri Rail too, so we'll delve in to it a little. Keep in mind I'm not trying to bash EOTech - I like them.. just not head over heels about them anymore like I was when I first got one almost a decade ago.

The problem I have with EOTech isn't necessarily speed, they're damn fast. The problem I have is the grainy reticle - it makes it REAL hard to put precise shots on target at any sort of distance. This is exacerbated if you change brightness levels. (or light conditions change, changing the 'relevant' brightness)

Try this exercise sometime if you have an EOTech and a 100+ yard range: Turn the EOTech down as far as you can still see it, and shoot a 10 shot group from the bench. Then turn it up as far as it'll go, and shoot a 10 shot group from the bench. The 'haze' that it starts to create makes it very difficult to keep a consistent point of aim.

The problem I have with shooting it long range is A) lighting conditions outside change constantly even in the same range session (especially if it's partly cloudy), and B) I rarely set it to the same brightness level with any sort of consistency.

The "wash", or "blur", or "haze", or whatever you want to call it, from the EOTech reticle, makes it very difficult to be precise. It's great for it's intended use - putting shots on target fast at close range. But when you need to reach out beyond 100-200 yards, it becomes a serious handicap.

To be fair I haven't shot one with a magnifier tube; but at the price point those EOTech combo deals are sitting at you're in ACOG and Nightforce "true" 1x-4x territory. (Leupold also has one I was looking at as well.)

The thing I've proven with this little PS90, is even with a 1x non-magnified optic, I'm able to hit very consistently at 200 yards (2 MOA or so), and even get the majority of shots on target at 300 yards. I simply *can not* do that with an EOTech. (If I take the EOTech off and shoot irons on the FS2000 I get about 1.5MOA groups from the bench, so I definitely know it's not the rifle...)

Anyway, that's my take on it. My needs go beyond a simple "reflex" sight which red-dots and Eotechs give. I need something that can serve as a decent reflex sight AND let me reach out to 300+ in a pinch.

The only way to do that with any consistency is to have a non-projected reticle. A projected one just doesn't cut it for precision work. (Particularly the grainy Eotech ones..)
 
Great thread!

A shooting buddy has a PS90 and it is where I learned I naturally cant a rifle. He and I had very different points of aim that we tracked down with it.

The PS90 is a lot and I mean a lot of fun to shoot. I have gone back and forth on buying one many times as it just fun to play with. Seeing this thread makes me think I should pick up the next reasonable one I see.

This raises a VERY important point if you are shooting distance with any rifle, but even more so with a PS90.

Because the sighting plane is pretty high above the barrel, you must be DEAD ON VERTICAL to keep groups this consistent at 200 yards. Fortunately the PS90 2nd gen reticle has a horizontal bar which I could compare parallelism vs. the top of the target stand I was shooting at to make sure I wasn't canting the rifle.

This is also one of the HUGE reasons why the old white 1st gen "donut of death" reticles was such a poor sighting system. You had no point of reference to know if you were "true" on holding the rifle vertical. There is no way in hell I could shoot these groups with the old 1st gen sights, not unless I fab'd up a bubble level to the optics.

With the sight plane vs. bore plane on these rifles being larger than some other platforms, even at 100 yards the "cant" of the rifle becomes a serious factor to shooting solid groups. So pay attention to it. :)

Thanks for bringing that up!!
 
Great thread & great info...thank you!

Sadly I may end up selling my unfired NIB PS90...black, no sights or optics. Anyway, I was in Impact Guns (LGS) the other day & they told me that these were no longer being sold to Non-LE. I did a quick search but cant find anything t support this. Any one know if this is true or a bunch of BS?

Also what are they going for NIB these days anyway?

Thx in advance!

TOU
 
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