What are armed citizens in Balitmore doing?

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I have been in an email exchange with a good old USMC buddy of mine who lives just outside Baltimore where violence has been threatened in the suburbs. Sent me a picture of him at his kitchen table holding his AK and let me know he had plenty of ammunition.

He sent along this:

This is what happened yesterday at a friend of mine son’s restaurant downtown Baltimore across from Camden Yards. Is this how law bidding citizens react when thing do not go their way. THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yktyADnCg8

He also mentioned:

Thanks Ron. We are fine here as we are a good 9-10 miles from all the trouble. There have been threats made to the suburbs and we are only 4 miles from the city line. Just being a good boy scout and being prepared. Hopefully things will quiet down now. It's a real shame that the rest of the world sees Baltimore as they are now. Sad. Sad.

Hope to see you and Kathy in Branson in June. We missed you guys last year.

Semper Fi,

Bob

I figure as long as the rioting and looting remains in the inner city things will be OK and with the National Guard there now things should get quiet. Don't underestimate the ability of many of the people like my old friend to defend their homes and property should it come to that. They are well armed.

Ron
 
Running out and gunning down rioters burning your business district may sound
Intriguing but I assure you you would spend the next years dealing with the legal ramifications. These folks are distroying the job and service providers in their Neighborhood. It's sad, but what always happens.
 
thats what insurance is for....

That's what we thought until a storage building on the Miller place was set fire one night. The settlement on building and contents didn't even match replacement value of the building. At eight years old it had "depreciated" to 5% of it's original value (later settled in court to 15%) I won't go into some of the "decisions" on the contents. Good neighbor my foot!
 
As a long term MD resident (not in Baltimore), I can assure you homes are as well armed as anywhere else. Yes, some refrain from carrying due to the ridiculously stringent carry rules, but if you think MD homes are any less protected, you're wrong.

I love this state for many reasons, and living on the Chesapeake Bay is one of them. Gun laws are obviously not one of those reasons. But my house, like many, are protected as the home laws are not much different than any other state, and obtaining firearms for the home is very easy. I actually filled out paperwork about an hour ago for my new CZ75 PCR. The state forms are no different than the federal forms that everyone must complete.
 
Being an ex Balitimore/Annapolis resident, I can tell you that it is extremely difficult. This is a state where even residents can only legally transport their firearms to a few localities:Target shooting and a gun shop for repair is about it. And cased at that.

Getting a permit to carry is probably more difficult than New Jersey and only Hawaii is tougher.

As a result, many Marylander's give up on even attempting to acquire a gun for home or business protection. Living there in the misnamed Free State is an absolute trial.
For home defense, are shotguns and rifles hard to obtain?
 
thats what insurance is for....

im pretty sure nothing in my shop would be worth killing over...or risk dying for.....

Good point! It's interesting how some fantasize about "protecting their businesses" including killing rioters. I think they have those Los Angeles' Korean American Grocers' video clips on DVD...

They never stop to think what would have happened to those grocers had they actually fired and hit some of the rioting thugs. Then maybe the fantasy wouldn't be so romantic in their minds.

As sickening as rioting thugs can be, taking human life (and risking one's own lives and those of other friendlies) to protect material goods is pretty sicko and illogical when it comes down to it. I think some do it in a sordid attempt to burnish their manhood.

Obviously there can be differing circumstances. In some cases property and business owners have plenty of heads-up to take what they can and get out of Dodge. In other cases they may have no way to bug-out and have no choice but to dig-in and potentially fight.

If I owned property/a business in many inner cities in the US, I would have a formal plan to secure things if all heck broke loose. Wandering around on the roof of a building with an AR15 at low ready would not be part of that plan.

NB: Keep your insurance plan up to date...
 
Owning a gun, then being able to legally defend yourself with a gun and then surviving the court cases afterwards is where the states vary widely.

My county throws the book at criminals. In other counties or cities you may be able to legal own or even use a gun for defense but then what happens next may vary widely as an overzealous prosecutor may come after you as the criminal.

Then there is the issue of civil suits as well.

Defend your liquor store with an AK if you legally may but what happens afterwards is anyones guess.
 
Good point! It's interesting how some fantasize about "protecting their businesses" including killing rioters. I think they have those Los Angeles' Korean American Grocers' video clips on DVD...

They never stop to think what would have happened to those grocers had they actually fired and hit some of the rioting thugs. Then maybe the fantasy wouldn't be so romantic in their minds.

As sickening as rioting thugs can be, taking human life (and risking one's own lives and those of other friendlies) to protect material goods is pretty sicko and illogical when it comes down to it. I think some do it in a sordid attempt to burnish their manhood.


Wow, thats a pretty offensive blanket condemnation of people who may have serious emotional ties to their life's work, their life's savings, and their livelihood. If you ever got to know some of those Koreans, and what they survived and went through to later start those businesses here, you'd maybe have a little more respect for their decisions to protect their businesses, instead of ridiculing them.
 
In Maryland we can buy a shotgun, most rifles or even an AR cash and carry. Pay for it and take it home the same day. AR choices are limited. Handguns have a ridiculous new HQL requirement but it doesn't matter for the ones you already owned prior to October 2013. Many residents in the Western counties, the Eastern shore or here in Southern Maryland are avid hunters and gun owners. Being armed outside your home is a problem...
 
From DP03
"I actually filled out paperwork about an hour ago for my new CZ75 PCR. The state forms are no different than the federal forms that everyone must complete."

This is no where near the truth. In free states you fill out a 4473 and that is usually it. In md you have to have the HQL first (fingerprinted, photoed, training, fee to state, etc, then wait for it to come in the mail), fill out several extra md only forms from mental health to another md version of the 4473, then after months of waiting for the HQL to go through wait at least 8 additional days to get your weapon. Oh, and pay for an Omega lock if it's new and doesn't have an internal lock.

It is NOT like the rest of the nation in regards to handguns. I think you may have been lulled into thinking md is "normal".
 
Wow, thats a pretty offensive blanket condemnation of people who may have serious emotional ties to their life's work, their life's savings, and their livelihood. If you ever got to know some of those Koreans, and what they survived and went through to later start those businesses here, you'd maybe have a little more respect for their decisions to protect their businesses, instead of ridiculing them.

Thank you sir! Generally those that have the "insurance will pay for it" got their possession pretty cheap to begin with.

I'm going to ask something now... The front room of my brother's house was originally a cabin built in 1866 or 67 when my 3rd great grandfather received title to this quarter section courtesy of Uncle Billy and the "thanks of the Union he defended." When my 2nd great grandfather came home from Cuba he bought an adjacent 1/8 section and he and his father built a house for the elder to live while he and his brother took over for him. They added what is now the first floor and a part of the 2nd. When the "old horse soldier" died his house sat empty until my Great grandfather came home from the war to end all wars with his Lakota wife and reconciled with his father. During the Depression my great grandfather had 6 kids and it was decided it would be cheaper to switch houses than build on to the second. My great grandfather died when my Grandpa was 16 and great great grandfather moved back. I could go on but if you don't have the idea by now you never will.

So tell me, if the house and barns that my great great great grandfather and his sons built by hand were about to be burned by brigands, heathens or just plain sub-humans what percentage of the sentimental value will insurance cover? Could insurance replace the saddle my Grandpa took off the horse my Great Grandfather decided to spring break and was killed after getting thrown? That saddle has been on that rafter since 1959, the leather is rotted and it's not worth a dime to anyone. However, my brother, sisters and I were threatened with corporal punishment if we attempted to even touch it. How about the old pistol hanging on Dad's wall? Along with the pencil scrawled note signed W T Sherman? Would insurance replace that? What about the set of knives I helped my uncle hand forge? Can insurance reassemble his ashes, breathe life into him so he can make me another? Or perhaps the flags presented to the family at over a hundred year's worth of funerals, could insurance recover the reverence of their display if scum were to drag them through the dirt? At what point, to what treasure, can you sit forward in your comfortable chair and nod in agreement that it's eminent destruction would provoke a reasonable person to return violence for violence?

The lives of scum and brigands may matter, in the scale of value, the life work of my family's past that defines my children's future matter more. If mine doesn't matter to them, I see reason none for theirs to matter to me.
 
In spite of the denials from the froth-mouthed liberals, the latest MD gun control laws are blatantly racist, very much in line with the Bloomberg-O'Malley push to ban possession of guns by black males under 25. The left claims that those are subhuman criminals who can't control their "base" impulses.

Note that that is coming from the liberal left, not from some warped KKK type in a white robe!

The truth is that Baltimore police have a terrible record of dealing with blacks, holding them in the same contempt as Bloomberg and O'Malley (a former mayor of Baltimore). Still the original protests were peaceful and quiet. It was not until the professional roving "protest mobs" (thugs and thieves) came into the city that the real trouble started.

So far at least, the riots don't seem to be race based, more anti-police than anti-white. White news people and whites driving by or watching have not been bothered, and some white folks joined the genuine protests.

Ironically, during the Ferguson riots, the Baltimore Sun and Baltimore TV stations blustered that such a thing could not happen there because the mayor is black, the police commissioner is black and most of the city council members are black. Well, so much for that nonsense!

Jim
 
So tell me, if the house and barns that my great great great grandfather and his sons built by hand were about to be burned by brigands, heathens or just plain sub-humans what percentage of the sentimental value will insurance cover? Could insurance replace the saddle my Grandpa took off the horse my Great Grandfather decided to spring break and was killed after getting thrown? That saddle has been on that rafter since 1959, the leather is rotted and it's not worth a dime to anyone. However, my brother, sisters and I were threatened with corporal punishment if we attempted to even touch it. How about the old pistol hanging on Dad's wall? Along with the pencil scrawled note signed W T Sherman? Would insurance replace that? What about the set of knives I helped my uncle hand forge? Can insurance reassemble his ashes, breathe life into him so he can make me another? Or perhaps the flags presented to the family at over a hundred year's worth of funerals, could insurance recover the reverence of their display if scum were to drag them through the dirt? At what point, to what treasure, can you sit forward in your comfortable chair and nod in agreement that it's eminent destruction would provoke a reasonable person to return violence for violence?

true...not all items can be replaced....and you certainly cannot replace sentimental value....

but are you seriously willing to actually take another persons life, open yourself up to potential legal hassle, and possibly face murder charges and spend your life in prison....to protect an inanimate object?.....

hell, you only have so many shots.....what if a pack of looters attacks you, and you run out of ammo and are over powered?......are you willing to risk death or serious injury to protect an inanimate object?.....i dunno, maybe you are......

i dont enjoy the thought of having to kill someone....to me, using deadly force is a last resort, and only when i feel my life or the life of someone else is in eminent danger........despite how much sentimental or monetary value an object may have, i do not consider the use of deadly force appropriate....

....your mileage may vary......
 
true...not all items can be replaced....and you certainly cannot replace sentimental value....

but are you seriously willing to actually take another persons life, open yourself up to potential legal hassle, and possibly face murder charges and spend your life in prison....to protect an inanimate object?.....

hell, you only have so many shots.....what if a pack of looters attacks you, and you run out of ammo and are over powered?......are you willing to risk death or serious injury to protect an inanimate object?.....i dunno, maybe you are......

i dont enjoy the thought of having to kill someone....to me, using deadly force is a last resort, and only when i feel my life or the life of someone else is in eminent danger........despite how much sentimental or monetary value an object may have, i do not consider the use of deadly force appropriate....

....your mileage may vary......

Keep in mind, my great great great grandfather fought against his own brother at Stone Mountain to obtain this land. Great great Grandfather fought in Cuba because he believed in this land, Great grandfather to defend the markets for the products of this land and grandpa crashed a glider into France to make sure we were free to live on this land. How anxious would I be to face my God and them on Judgment Day if I wasn't willing to die to keep it?

Since "black lives matter" let me quote a man "tried and true" that happened to be negro...

“I have a dream!
To be free at last!
Free at last!
Free at last.
And if a man has nothing to die for,
Then his life is worth nothing.”
 
"Thank you sir! Generally those that have the "insurance will pay for it" got their possession pretty cheap to begin with"
Fair enough, but since the vast majority of us aren't wealthy enough to have possessions worth more than our own lives, they tend to take precedence over material goods. I would also argue that your line of thinking stems from not losing much/all of the same valuable objects due to circumstance as happens, again, to the vast majority of folks out there. Poverty, illness, acts of God, injustice, inheritance, law, rot and rust rob an awful lot of people of their possessions across generations, prized or valuable. A centuries old estate is one heck of an exception, and worth defending, but almost no one has one.

TCB
 
OW,
With no desire to add fuel to a fire that unfortunately burns both sides of the argument, and for which there is no single or simple answer, I'm still gonna take a moment to ship off a :D in your general direction.
Denis
 
"Thank you sir! Generally those that have the "insurance will pay for it" got their possession pretty cheap to begin with"
Fair enough, but since the vast majority of us aren't wealthy enough to have possessions worth more than our own lives, they tend to take precedence over material goods. I would also argue that your line of thinking stems from not losing much/all of the same valuable objects due to circumstance as happens, again, to the vast majority of folks out there. Poverty, illness, acts of God, injustice, inheritance, law, rot and rust rob an awful lot of people of their possessions across generations, prized or valuable. A centuries old estate is one heck of an exception, and worth defending, but almost no one has one.

TCB

If you are indeed so poor as to have nothing you are willing to die for, your poverty is indeed devastating. You have my sympathies.


And just for the record, it's a century plus old business not estate.
 
Since "black lives matter" let me quote a man "tried and true" that happened to be negro...

Quote:

“I have a dream!
To be free at last!
Free at last!
Free at last.
And if a man has nothing to die for,
Then his life is worth nothing.”

Yeah....I'm pretty sure MLK wasn't talking about your flat screen TV and your antique hummel set when he said that.....
 
If you are indeed so poor as to have nothing you are willing to die for, your poverty is indeed devastating. You have my sympathies.

I'll accept your sympathies. I and the 99% of folks who dont own any material possession so cherished as to give up our lives and futures over it.

Lives of my family? Absolutely. My freedom? Yes. Ideals of liberty? I like to hope so.
Material "things?"

A wise man once said, "the things you own end up owning you." If you are so compelled by your patch of dirt and pile of wood and sentiment that you'd risk life and freedom and the future of your loved ones over it, then you have my sympathies.
 
To some, it is fighting for their own material possessions, without regard to other's possessions, and maybe even lives that will be taken as thugs who are not challenged become increasingly emboldened with each act of thuggery they get away with, and escalate their offenses.

Much greater than the value of the possessions is the value of the RIGHT to OWN said possessions without being targeted or molested. While property may not be worth dying for, the founding fathers of this nation seemed to feel that the right to have it was.
 
From DP03
"I actually filled out paperwork about an hour ago for my new CZ75 PCR. The state forms are no different than the federal forms that everyone must complete."

This is no where near the truth. In free states you fill out a 4473 and that is usually it. In md you have to have the HQL first (fingerprinted, photoed, training, fee to state, etc, then wait for it to come in the mail), fill out several extra md only forms from mental health to another md version of the 4473, then after months of waiting for the HQL to go through wait at least 8 additional days to get your weapon. Oh, and pay for an Omega lock if it's new and doesn't have an internal lock.

It is NOT like the rest of the nation in regards to handguns. I think you may have been lulled into thinking md is "normal".
Look, don't think I like MD's firearms rules. But let's at least get your facts straight.

HQL's are usually processed in less than two weeks. The months you refer to is only when they first went into effect. Also, the HQL is good for 5 years, so you don't go through the long process you stated with every handgun purchase. You do it once. Yes, there is an 8 day waiting period for handguns. Shotguns, rifles and AR15 or AR10's you walk out with the day of purchase.

I have purchased 2 handguns and a rifle in the last 5 weeks. The paperwork is painless. The only inconvenience is the 8 day waiting period, but most people, including myself, have other firearms to use during that wait.

So, is it an ideal situation. Absolutely not. But you're making it sound like buying guns in MD is hard or impossible. Its not.
 
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