Wanting a Katana, but needing a prybar

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leadcounsel

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Been lusting for a Katana (and even a straight blade ninja sword too) for many years. I've got some nice "battle ready" (I know that term is over-used) knight-style long and short swords in my modest collection. I don't want junk or wall-hangers.

In short, I want a sword that can be called into duty, isn't junk, and one would be proud to own and pass down someday, but also not break the bank. For ME, it's difficult to part with over $300 for a sword (old technology) when for a little more you get a modern working firearm, or a pile of ammo and mags.

I've spent some time reading up about the materials and manufacturing of Katanas. I've read a lot of the intro stuff, now just looking for end user feedback. Seems for a functioning, full tang, sharp and high quality steel sword, with nice materials for the handle, guard, pommel, (pardon me for not looking up the Japanese names). So my budget is $200-300. $300 is probably my upper limit and even then it'll take a prybar to get it out of my hands because I'm lusting after some $400 Sig Sauers and $600 AKs...

So, onto my journey. Steel- seems the best in my range is 1095 or 9260 spring steel. Any more guidance? Other things I've noticed is the materials used in the handles, handguards, etc. Also, the Bohi desirability and whether to pay extra for a Hamon, and what to we weary of, and also whether to just bypass it if it's not REALLY authentic but a cheap polishing process...

I want to reiterate, I want a real weapon that is useful and will last, but I'm not interested in spending north of $300. Seems to me that $300 should be a reasonable amount to get a quality weapon with a few finer points. I do not want "cheap" feeling however and would just skip the whole process if that's what I'll end up with.

I'm looking at a few companies - if anyone has experience I'd love to hear from you or take recommendations:
http://www.swordsofnorthshire.com/
http://www.ryansword.com/
http://www.real-sword.com/

This is not a solicitation for self defense laws, guns versus swords, or history lesson...
Any relevant insight is awesome.
 
For ME, it's difficult to part with over $300 for a sword (old technology)

You're in luck since you can get a functional katana for that price range.

You need to understand that "old technology" actually means "made by a craftsman" (to some extent) when you're talking about usable katana vs. "crapped out by machines in a factory" as most guns are.

Since you don't have any experience with these the best advice is to follow swordbuyers guide on what is currently available since they're a dedicated site and up to date on what's out there.

I've been happy with the handling and performance of the Cas Paul Chen Practical Plus and Practical Pro katanas for reasonably priced pieces, but I haven't handled any current production this year and can't tell you what they're like right at this moment.
 
You're in luck since you can get a functional katana for that price range.

You need to understand that "old technology" actually means "made by a craftsman" (to some extent) when you're talking about usable katana vs. "crapped out by machines in a factory" as most guns are.

Since you don't have any experience with these the best advice is to follow swordbuyers guide on what is currently available since they're a dedicated site and up to date on what's out there.

I've been happy with the handling and performance of the Cas Paul Chen Practical Plus and Practical Pro katanas for reasonably priced pieces, but I haven't handled any current production this year and can't tell you what they're like right at this moment.
Thank you HSO - to further explain, I also recognize MY skill limitations as well as the intended use. I would not be able to capture the value of a pricier sword, nor am I slaying zombies.
 
Think of getting into katanas is like getting into high end 1911's. A friend of mine dropped $8,000 on a bare katana blade made by a recently deceased maker. He will spend another $4,000 adding all the fittings and getting it polished properly.

Be very, very careful if you're going to cut anything. You can cut yourself and bleed out before the paramedics arrive. People around you can die or be maimed from a broken katana; the pommel on a cheap European longsword broke during cutting and the blade almost flew away. I highly recommend seeking out training. You can study with HEMA to learn the cutting basics and safety. Find a club here: http://hemaalliance.com/?page_id=686 (Go to Blood & Iron Martial Arts if it is close enough to Tacoma).

Think of Ryan Sword as a Hi-Point. Do NOT get a Ryan Sword. They are CHEAP.

Avoid the sites listed. Kult of Athena is a great site and they take care of their customers.

The SBG katana that I handled at a recent HEMA event was not a very good sword. It didn't even have a full length tang. Avoid.

The lowest end sword I would ever consider is a Hanwei Practical Katana (http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=PC1070). I would not consider this to be anything good or historically accurate, but it does fulfill the requirements of "sharp, pointy cutting instrument". It's reasonably well made for stopping rampaging hordes of water bottles and the occasional attacking tatami mat. They have a good reputation as a decent cutter.

I consulted with people who have been doing Japanese Sword Arts for at least a decade and the lowest end they're willing to consider is Bugei. MAS katanas are used by many guys in JSA.

http://bugei.com/katana-6-ctg.htm

http://www.martialartswords.com/

I really like the MAS Maple katana.
 
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Bit off of what you are looking for but the new Cold Steel Thai machete is an interesting piece of steel. Will take a far amount of abuse and is priced at a point I'm fine using it hard. They also make a "katana" version but it's almost cartoon like and more of a machete than a sword type thing.

I had the Thai out this last weekend and like it a lot. Pretty horrible machete since it wants to twist in my hand but I think as a training tool with a live edge it has some value.
 
I like Cold Steel stuff for functional things to beat up for a decent budget. Not collectible nor traditional, but if you like thrashing things, I think they are a good place to start.

P.S. I'm not really a sword guy, more into knives, so take it for what it's worth
 
Think of getting into katanas is like getting into high end 1911's.

Be very, very careful if you're going to cut anything. You can cut yourself and bleed out before the paramedics arrive. I highly recommend seeking out training. You can study with HEMA to learn the cutting basics and safety. Find a clube here: http://hemaalliance.com/?page_id=686

Think of Ryan Sword as a Hi-Point. Do NOT get a Ryan Sword. They are CHEAP. Avoid the sites listed.

The SBG katana that I handled at a recent HEMA event was not a very good sword. It didn't even have a full length tang. Avoid.

The lowest end sword I would ever consider is a Hanwei Practical Katana. I would not consider this to be anything good or accurate. However, it's reasonably well made for stopping rampaging hordes of

I consulted with people who have been doing Japanese Sword Arts for at least a decade and the lowest end they're willing to consider is Bugei. MAS katanas are used by many guys in JSA.

http://bugei.com/katana-6-ctg.htm

http://www.martialartswords.com/

I really like the MAS Maple katana.

I looked at those links, and respect your opinion and experience. But those swords are 3-5 times my budget and more... just not going to happen.

As far as a full-tang, the swords of northshire shows a picture of their stock metal and a full thick tang (not spot welded). Seems if you have that it's a good starting point.
peony6-600x600.jpg

Bit off of what you are looking for but the new Cold Steel Thai machete is an interesting piece of steel. Will take a far amount of abuse and is priced at a point I'm fine using it hard. They also make a "katana" version but it's almost cartoon like and more of a machete than a sword type thing.

I had the Thai out this last weekend and like it a lot. Pretty horrible machete since it wants to twist in my hand but I think as a training tool with a live edge it has some value.

The Cold Steel is around $280, and lower quality metal than the links I've supplied. I do have a CS Gladiator $30 sword that is pretty impressive.
 
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It depends. You can get halfway respectable full-tang ones for under $100. Sure, the steel may not be as good, but they'll still take an edge even if they won't keep it under real use (and really, are you going to be using it for much, anyway?).

A quick Google found this one: http://www.trueswords.com/samurai-special-tatsu-maki-full-tang-katana-p-4676.html

And this: http://www.budk.com/product/Shinwa-Black-Knight-Black-Cord-Damascus-Ninja-Katana-Sword/159687.uts

This for $130 (nice looking): http://www.budk.com/product/Shinwa-Regal-Katana-Tan-Sword-Damascus/159685.uts

And this for $200: http://www.budk.com/product/Shikoto-Hand-Forged-Katana-Damascus-Sword/159701.uts

That last one looks VERY nice.

Check out this site's other offerings: http://www.budk.com/category/Swords/Full-Tang-Swords/pc/2883/3556.uts
 
Sorry, but no "half way respectable" katana is out there for under $100. That's simply below the price range for anything other than a wall hanger and would be clearly dangerous to try to cut with.
 
Avoid Cold Steel swords...lots of problems (incorrect balance, build, etc). As I understand it, they're made under contract from Windlas. It won't cut right if it doesn't have the correct dimensions.

The Hanwei Practical katana is about as good as you're going to get for your price. It's a "known" production sword.

The best answer is to buy a good one and keep it for 40 years. I have performed this search already and I keep coming back to that MAS Maple. One day...

Do not go to Albion Swords. Nope. Never go there. You do not want The Earl, The Viceroy, The Regent, The Crecy or The Maximilian. Nope. They're terrible. ;) You will not be able to stop buying them!
 
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Seems if you have that it's a good starting point.

You're better off than a lot of the garbage out there sold to the uninformed, but that's not all there is to "a good starting" point. You can have poor quality full tang pieces that have the balance of a 2x4 with blades that are too soft or, worse, too brittle.

Since there are reasonably balanced katanas out there that are safe to cut with within the stated price range the question becomes which products meets all those requirements. At this price range there's not a lot of choices that won't risk wasting your money or endangering the person cutting with it and those around them.
 
i was recently looking for a sword in the same price range, i wanted something "usable" but wasnt going to break the bank....

through my searchings narrowed it down to either the Hanwei Practical Plus....or the Hanwei Raptor.

both of which are suitable and safe for cutting, however you are not going to get some of the features of some higher priced blades, they are not differential tempered, and the fittings and finishment wont be as high as some pricier blades....however the blade is a quality bit of steel that wont likely shatter on you with use.

if i were to spend my money it would be with one of those two.
 
The advice I've read is that inferior blade metals can be made into superior blades with the right smith, and just because you have a superior metal doesn't mean you'll have a superior blade, given the skills of the smith.

Now, all things equal, I don't know the smith and his techniques. I can only assume that they build hundreds or thousands of swords, and have studied and done this for years. I can't determine "balance" from an online purchase. So, all things equal, from what I've read, 1095 is the best commonly used metals in the $300 price range. 1040 is cheap and soft and used in display swords. 1060 seems to be the minimum one might use in a functional sword, and then 1065. 9260 is 1060 with added materials to make it more flexible and less brittle. And then you bump up to T10 and 1095. Above that I don't know because it quickly becomes out of my price range.

So, with that in mind, for right under $300, one can get a real full tang (not spot welded) 1095 blade, maybe deferentially tempering, with silk and ray wrapped handle, and iron alloy pommel and guard, and nice wood sheath. That's what my "research" has led me to determine.

In watching various videos of common untrained folks with their supposed 1095 swords, chopping through stuff, they seem quite usefully impressive.

Given I have no sword training, I will need to get proper training to maximize the usefulness of the weapon.
 
I have a Swamp Rat Waki. I immediately thought of it when I read your misleading title- but it's about 80% above your price limit.
 
Do not go to Albion Swords. Nope. Never go there. You do not want The Earl, The Viceroy, The Regent, The Crecy or The Maximilian. Nope. They're terrible.

Please explain your reasons for blackballing Albion and just what makes the swords you listed "terrible". Your comments appear to contradict the statement “ Not to mention swords to drool over from Albion and Arms & Armor (the best production makers of swords based on real thing” posted in this thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9371456&highlight=Albion#post9371456

and “I really like Arms & Armor and Albion” in this thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9121261&highlight=Albion#post9121261


tomrkba - ;) You will not be able to stop buying them!

EDIT: OK, now that you have edited your post I understand you were being facetious ;). I did not pick-up on the first draft of your post and thought you had lost your mind or been really burned by Albion on a sword.
 
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You're in luck since you can get a functional katana for that price range.

You need to understand that "old technology" actually means "made by a craftsman" (to some extent) when you're talking about usable katana vs. "crapped out by machines in a factory" as most guns are.

Since you don't have any experience with these the best advice is to follow swordbuyers guide on what is currently available since they're a dedicated site and up to date on what's out there.

I've been happy with the handling and performance of the Cas Paul Chen Practical Plus and Practical Pro katanas for reasonably priced pieces, but I haven't handled any current production this year and can't tell you what they're like right at this moment.
My instructor and others in dojo have liked the Paul Chen swords if you are looking for a cutting sword and not a wall hanger.
 
The advice I've read is that inferior blade metals can be made into superior blades with the right smith, and just because you have a superior metal doesn't mean you'll have a superior blade, given the skills of the smith.

Now, all things equal, I don't know the smith and his techniques. I can only assume that they build hundreds or thousands of swords, and have studied and done this for years. I can't determine "balance" from an online purchase. So, all things equal, from what I've read, 1095 is the best commonly used metals in the $300 price range. 1040 is cheap and soft and used in display swords. 1060 seems to be the minimum one might use in a functional sword, and then 1065. 9260 is 1060 with added materials to make it more flexible and less brittle. And then you bump up to T10 and 1095. Above that I don't know because it quickly becomes out of my price range.

So, with that in mind, for right under $300, one can get a real full tang (not spot welded) 1095 blade, maybe deferentially tempering, with silk and ray wrapped handle, and iron alloy pommel and guard, and nice wood sheath. That's what my "research" has led me to determine.

In watching various videos of common untrained folks with their supposed 1095 swords, chopping through stuff, they seem quite usefully impressive.

Given I have no sword training, I will need to get proper training to maximize the usefulness of the weapon.
yes a good smith can turn poor quality into outstanding but you are looking for cheap
thats where all those modern steel grades become important basically pick your steel and have it ground down maybee with a little hardening work.

its not as easy as you would think to harden then temper a true forged blade the buggers
want to twist and bend on quenching im looking at a blade now i built 20 years ago it was only meant to be a short straight sword like the ninja to i think they were called?

anyway after the forging to get the sword shape in mild steel it took 7 or 8 goes reheating then quenching to adjust for the bend.basically i had to forge bend it forward
like a scickle prior to hardening temps so that when it was quenched it returned to straight.And its still not 100% true on the blade but it is very hard and resilient

if i was going to try to make a lot of these i think i would just heat treat in rough then
grind down slowly with plenty of water.
 
1095 seems a bit hard for a sword steel. While not intended to strike trees and rocks, a "battle ready" blade needs to be able to take a hit and not shatter. I dont know a whole lot about T10 w/ 1095.
Get yourself some truck leaf springs and a belt sander and get to work
This is actually exactly what Kukris have been made from in Nepal for years and it is actually a very fine heavy duty use steel.

Food for though: I know everyone these days jumps on the "steel science" train and wants the most exotic flavor of the week steel for their blades. For a katana keep in mind that iron ore was really low quality in Japan and also very rare. It would take dozens of refinements to get it to a even remotely usable standard by a very skilled sword maker. Part of the reason the katana was so well revered was because they were so difficult to get materials to make and the skill required to make them usable. Sort of like a diamond necklace. In Europe iron ore was much more abundant and of better quality. An authentic katana would be absolutely horrible by today's steel standards, and would have major inclusions as well as inconstient tempering by comparison to todays standards, yet it served their owners very well. I read somewhere that an orignal katana run the gamut of the equilivent to 1025-1075 carbon steel based on carbon content. And that was often that wide of a variation on the same blade depending on how much charcoal got bonded with the blade.
 
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I bought a 9260 blade from ninja-katana on Ebay, the seller uses this name as well as another and has very good reviews.
I spent a week of cruising through boring sword snob forums that are heavily into certain name brands, but i have learned this, just because its made in China does not mean its cheap in quality, you can get a modern homogenous metals blade even with hardening, a realistic fame hamon.
The one i bought is very nice, no flaws, surgically sharp, and for $169.
Its not my goal to live in a warrior bushido code fantasy world, nor to chop bottles, i just wanted an affordable katana. I wont even bother posting my review on any other sword forum, its like talking about a Goldwing in a Harley forum.
 
You won't want to use a low end sword once you handle a well made sword.

Egos tend to get in the when the topic is some sort of weapon. Sword buyers in particular seem to be hung up on cost. Egos somehow get tied up with cost and this applies on both ends of the spectrum.

At the end of the day, all swords should be safe to use because someone eventually will try to use it. These companies making unsafe junk muddy the waters too much. This is why people advocate for the Hanwei Practical: it is safe to use and low priced. But, don't make the mistake of investing ego into any sword.
 
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I can only assume that they build hundreds or thousands of swords,

That's unlikely if you think about it for a bit. A smith takes many hours forging the blade then hours more finishing it and then hours more on the sword fittings and furnishing. They literally don't have time in a lifetime to make hundreds, much less thousands. I've worked with them and been around them and you'd be surprised they make a living doing it considering what the time involved is.

Inferior steel is challenging to make into a good performing blade even if a smith knows how to maximize the performance/characteristics of the steel in heat treat. There's no point in a smith using inferior steel compared to adequate or superior steel since the price difference isn't great enough to make it worthwhile to go with crap.
 
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