Nuke all Muslims

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Lawdog

I concur.

I consider Derek a friend as well, and no I have never met him.

I have many friends of many belief's.

One of my instructor's ( and family) last semester along with a classmate had to leave the College early - before semester's end. They were flat scared and in fear of various threats being made in the area where they lived.

Instructor had already decided to accept a teaching position elsewhere and the student had chosen an internship at the same. Regulations being as they are...they had to be there in a certain time frame. Time would not allow them to finsh - instead the establishing of new residence was priority.

So not only did I have to have a new instructor fill in right at the last moment, I had no lab partner. So we broke our necks to finish the team project so he could get the grade.

Same two folks I took to a private range, They wanted to learn.
 
I have used this bandwidth and the good graces of Mr Zeanah ever since the closing of TFL. It is some of the only gun based comeraderie I have found in the curious place California has become. With Tamara's statement about Mr Zeanah's faith in another thread recently I have struggled with my doubts about the followers of Islam and how this relates to membership on this forum. I am far from convinced that the rank and file believer is any form of threat to infidels (me), but I have substantial questions about the nature of their faith. I will not be a hypocrite nor will I insult the good will of our host. Many thanks to all for all I have learned here and special thanks to Mr Zeanah for his efforts. Come to California and vote pro gun, or maybe I will be your neighbor in a pro gun state someday. I hope to meet you all on the range and look forward to that moment. Molon Labe!

Norm Stimpson - aka CAL4D4
 
Of course, the destruction of all those of a certain religion is beyond tasteless, but why do we have such over-the-top remarks?

First, some over-react because the topic of beheading is such an awful thing to see and hear about.

But

I think that there is a basic lack of understanding of the Muslim faith and how portions of that faith can act in such ways in the name of their faith. American Muslims that speak up and educate are very much needed. Muslims that condemn.. and I understand that many have condemned this latest act of beheading are performing an important function. Many of us have asked the Muslim members on this board to help us to understand what is going on within the Muslim faith in the U.S. Truth is, it's not our board members responsiblity to provide this information, but the reason that we have asked questions.. mostly unanswered.. is because we want to be informed and we trust those on this board more than those outside the board. I don't have any Muslim friends.. actually, not sure that I have any friends..but I do believe that lack of understanding due to lack of open discussion makes for misunderstanding and over-generalization.
 
FIRST:

Well written, LawDog. Complete agreement with your entry.

SECOND - -And I am actively straining to control my disgust here, to remain on The High Road in my language - - But, - -

WHO IN THE WORLD ARE YOU, ANY OF YOU, TO DEFINE WHAT DUTY DEREK OWES TO YOU? How DARE you make demands of a learned person who by his technical expertise contributes more to the RKBA cause each week than the majority of us do in a year?

The only time I see ANYONE needs to justify his position is when he/she does something which is outright detrimental to the United States or our Constitution. Derek has done nothing antagonistic in the name of his religion, or for any other reason that I've ever seen.

Such demands may be seen by some as derrogatory and downright insulting. I suggest you drop this line of self-righteous "demanding," forthwith.

You know who you are.

Johnny Guest
 
Lawdog and other moderators here have made their position clear. I've never banned anyone--yet.

WHO WANTS TO BE FIRST?

Denny
 
Jim March said

In both cases, it's not an "Islam problem" - it's Arab cultural influences

That statement makes sense. It's like ''Islam causes terrorism like guns cause crime." What may very well be happening is a "hijacking" of a convenient and local vehicle-Islam-by a bunch of would be tyrants seeking world domination. Same way tyrants like Stalin, Mao, Hitler and others down through the ages hijacked various ideologies as a means to their end. We have a long way to go to understand how this enemy operates. First we must figure out who the enemy is.
 
FIRST:
Well written, LawDog. Complete agreement with your entry.

SECOND - -And I am actively straining to control my disgust here, to remain on The High Road in my language - - But, - -

WHO IN THE WORLD ARE YOU, ANY OF YOU, TO DEFINE WHAT DUTY DEREK OWES TO YOU? How DARE you make demands of a learned person who by his technical expertise contributes more to the RKBA cause each week than the majority of us do in a year


Amen.

I don't personally know the man, but if he's like any of the Muslim friends I have had over the years, many of them Iraqi, then he's a very good and decent person.

What am I missing? Where do people get off acting like Oleg Volk, the moderators, or Derek owe them anything? They volunteer their time and money to keep this site up and running and suddenly they are expected to justify themselves as well?
 
I don't know any Muslim's, but I don't care what race religion or preference you have you may have made a friend. I do not subscribe to any organized religion because of the fact that I believe there are far too many fanatics and far too many hipocrites in them. On Monday-Saturday the hipocrites are defiling the speakings of the religion and on Sunday they go to church and beg forgiveness(I am more familiar about Christianity then other religions but I do know a little bit about them). My question is that if you know it is against the religion then why the heck did you do it in the first place?

As to the fanatics they are in every religion, and they are not confined to religion alone. Remember Northern Ireland? Protestants killing Catholics killing British soldiers? What was it for? And I have met more fanatics when I was with my gf who's mother was a Witness then anyplace else.
 
I agree fully, it enrages me to no end when people post garbage about hating all of Islam and such.

I don't think it'll ever really end, due to the fact that some of the extreme right wing people who tend to make up a portion of the gun community often harbor bigoted if not racist views (Most people are too chickensh*t to be outwardly racist, but you know damn well lots of people are inside).
 
I lived in a country that was 90% Muslim for a decade. I got more smiles, hello's and had more people introduce themselves to me and ask all about America and try to form a friendship than I have ever experienced in my life.

Generalizations against population groups are rarely, if ever accurate. If anyone feels the need to let off some steam, let it off in the right direction.
 
That statement makes sense. It's like ''Islam causes terrorism like guns cause crime." What may very well be happening is a "hijacking" of a convenient and local vehicle-Islam-by a bunch of would be tyrants seeking world domination. Same way tyrants like Stalin, Mao, Hitler and others down through the ages hijacked various ideologies as a means to their end. We have a long way to go to understand how this enemy operates. First we must figure out who the enemy is.

Right.

See...OK, let's talk about what I meant by "Arab cultural influences".

There's a passage in the Quran in which Mohammed convinced a man NOT to kill his oldest daughter. She was just about to hit puberty. Standard religious practice in the Arab world was to kill one firstborn daughter per family while she was still pre-sexual (both in terms of physical development and experience) so that she would "die pure" and act as a kind of..."holy icon to the family". Very, VERY weird stuff.

See what I mean about "hangups about female sexuality going back before Mohammed"? This is the kind of thing I'm talking about.

Islam put an end to that, and in other ways *moderated* Arab views on women.

Another example: yes, a woman who had sex out of marriage could be killed, but the "standards of proof" (multiple witnesses, for example) were so extreme that in practice it more or less never happened in Islam's early years.

It happens way, WAY more often today in a few Arab-cultural-influenced Islamic subcultures, the worst being the Palestinians. It happens there far more often than Islam itself allows, by several orders of magnatude. Search google for:

palestinian "honor killings"

:barf:

So again: is Islam the issue, or very old Arab culture taken to sick new extremes?

I condemn that twisted cultural practice, which I believe doesn't have a damned thing to do with Islam at all. A deliberately twisted view of Islam is being used as an excuse.

Arab culture is sometimes twisted in other ways. Racism isn't tolerated in genuine Islam, that's one of it's best features. The support for the German holocaust by major Palestinian political and religious figures is both well documented and *totally* contrary to Islam.

Culture, not religion.

-----------------

It's true that Islam integrates governmental functions with religion, if they get the chance. That can be a problem. But the real issue is that it leaves Islam open to being used by Totalitarian-minded thugs who are often themselves either not Muslims, or very VERY bad ones. Nasser in Egypt, Saddam in Iraq, Quaddafy in Libya (although he seems to be mellowing of late) and simply scads of others have brutally *used* Islam, cynically, as a political tool. (Usually with well-stocked Whiskey supplies :rolleyes:.)

Yet another VERY poor excuse indeed to disparage honest, sincere Muslims such as Derek and Nadja.
 
this is the first I have heard of Mr. Zeanah and his efforts for the High Road so I don't think much of it at this time.
All due respect, El Rojo, but if this is the first you've heard of Derek, you haven't paid all that much attention. Maybe you should read up a little.

Derek has helped me a time or two in the past with some server issues of my own - even offering to take time out of his day to work on it remotely. From all my interactions with him both on the forum and through PMs, he has left a very good impression on me.

The fact that so many posts like the ones LawDog has referred to have gone by without Derek taking personal action against the posters speaks volumes to me about the amount of tolerance he possesses - a level far higher than mine. Several times I've come across such posts and thought to myself Man, that member is sure lucky I am not running this server.

Frankly, I'm not all that happy about the moderators' pulling out the ban stick either, El Rojo, but I find no fault in their reasons.
 
So many of these threads and so many folks taking each posts at its worst. Some over the top. I don't think that you can stop all of this stuff without limiting this board to what it is suppose to be and that is a firearm related board and not a pro/con religious and non-firearms political board. I like folks on this board and value their opinions on many topics, but this is like a family fighting, where no one individual really wants to fight. I don't believe that most individuals are demanding that any one person defend their religion. These topics are ones that some people feel very strongly about. They are not firearms related. Some of these threads are disheartening. I didn't see the thread that started this, but I'm sure it was quite disturbing.
 
I have met Derek. He's worth bleeding for.

I haven't seen any demands for anyone else to explain "their" religion, and if they did happen, we as staff would put a stop to it quickly.

The standards for conduct here are fairly simple. If you have a question about them, please email or PM staff.

Now, just to be sure we are still clear, the mission of this board is to promote firearms and freedom. It does NOT exist to cast aspersions on anyone's religion, occupation, color, personal hygiene, or legal sexual preferences. If you "need" to perform some of those actions, go elsewhere.

John
 
Rules Of Conduct
upper right corner
http://www.thehighroad.org/code-of-conduct.html

I am a guest, I'm asked to abide to the Rules of Conduct.

Anyone from Oleg, To any administrator, or moderator can ban me for whatever reason they happen to choose. They do not HAVE to give me a reason - though I bet - common courtesy and respect will kick in and they will. They owe me nothing.

If I have a problem - I am supposed to contact the person that warns,or bans me in Private, PM or Email. NOT on a public thread.

If you have a problem with me, or one of my posts, we have a feature to "report this post to moderator".

If I have a problem being a guest here - I am free to leave.

Now I grew up a certain way and I admit there have been times where I was "upset" with a " Group of Folks". I was younger, and "reacted" out of emotions rather than using rational thinking.

I will not Name the "Group (s)" It is NOT important. What is important is to practice some restraint and engage brain before engaging in actions.

Damn straight I'm pissed about what happened on 9/11/01. I'm not happy with a lot of atrocities since then. Then again I still get riled thinking about folks I knew that died,were tortured, came home maimed in other conflicts in history. One in particular where the US spit on the troops abroad and those coming home.

I had a right to be upset. I was wrong to blame a whole "group" ....there was "sect" that was responsible.

You certainly have the right to hate me, report me, put me on "ignore list" and get me canned.

What about the rest of my kind? I'm what some call a WASP, to make it worse I was born, raised and still in the South , to make it more detailed, a hetrosexual male.

Kill us all and let a "Diety" sort all my kind out - huh?
 
Moderators of this forum have my absolute trust and confidence. Any one of them is welcome to eliminate any transgressing account on his own initiative. On this topic, we conferred. My opinion, after reading some of the ill-mannered and ungrateful comments, is that we won't miss a bigot or two at all.

Derek, by the way, is a man of honor and rare intelligence, and a credit to this country. I wouldn't say the same of some of the "patriots" I've encountered here lately.
 
Derek was always nice to me,

even when I was mean and grumpy.

As a rather bad Christian myself, I hesitate to throw any first stones at my own people's glass houses, let alone anyone else's, but may I direct everyone's attention to Queen Noor's (now dowager) web site, and ask you all to mouse around until you find her family photo album? Those are cheerfull, happy, intelligent, benevolent Moslems.

Now go look at pictures of Wahhabbis. Don't they all look like unhappy Puritanical sourpusses?

For those who don't know, Queen Noor is the former Lisa Halaby, daughter of Najeeb Halaby (Arab Christian) who ran the FAA (CAA?) in the Eisenhower administration. She married the late King Hussein, of Jordan, a descendent of the Prophet himself. IMHO, Hussein was a cool and manly guy, and one of the two or three best kings who ever lived.

Oh, some more about the Wahhabis: I think T.E. Lawrence said he could take care of them with his escort (REAL Bedouins) and one tank platoon.


Hmm. Lemme think now...

Actual descendents of Prophet being cool, manly, rational, just, happy, tolerant etc. etc.


Descendents of bandit chieftain and his tame imam acting mean, crazy , violent, unjust, irrational, arrogant, etc, etc.


I know which side I'd pick, even before going with some of my fellow "Christians."
 
Law Dog pretty well hit the nail on the head. This "kill off all Muslims" stuff is just nuts.
 
There is enough hatred out there already as evidenced by the media's insane hatred of President George W. Bush and desire to show him and America in the worst possible light at any opportunity. We don't need to contribute to the bad vibes. Thanks, LawDog.

Now, I could do without the self flagellation, also. ;)
 
Being a volunteer firefighter, I have had great difficulty squaring the attacks of 9/11 with the Muslim religion. In the words of my wife the death of over 300 firefighters deeply affected me and filled me with anger and hatred. As the result I took the time to understand our enemy and their tactics. There are many books available on the subject and I would suggest everyone who wishes to understand these issues read them. I am currently reading Inside AlQaeda or how a brave Muslim infiltrated the organization risking death to himself and family to expose its brutality and hatred. I believe as the Soviet Union does that these people are a cancer of society and need to be hunted down and excised. This problem is an abomination of Islam and until more courageous people like Mohamed Sifaoui step forward to condemn the actions of these terrorists groups this misunderstanding will continue in the western world.

Seeing the savagery depicted by yesterdays beheading inflames me to the point of insanity and I have to be careful that my anger is directed in the right place.
That all Muslims are not evil.
That there is good and evil in every group of people.
That we are fighting a specific form of hatred not unlike the NAZI party.
That we are a war, and must direct our attention and our resources at our enemy.

That’s my two cents.
 
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