Anti Gun Groups May Seek Help From Gay Marriage Organizers

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JTHunter

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You just KNEW this wasn't over!:cool:
Fresh off their recent victory in having same-sex marriage legalized, many of the movement’s organizers are now turning to gun control as the next hot social issue, or so reports the New Yorker.

"Marriage-equality activists in every state were armed with a talking-points tip sheet from WhyMarriageMatters.org whose logo reads “Love. Commitment. Family.” The one-page memo talks about the protection of religious freedom, the golden rule, family stability, and mutual respect. In the fight for marriage equality, the left borrowed the language of the right, in other words, and used it consistently and explicitly to bring the opposition along. Now similar tacks are being taken on guns…

When Zach Silk thinks about how to articulate the values of the renovated gun movement, he uses the same words that the gun advocates use: “Community. Safety. Responsibility. Protecting my family.” In this redefining, he hopes to make a point. “Protection” isn’t an individual matter (a canard in any case, because having a gun in the house makes you exponentially less safe) in which individual patriarchs safeguard individual offspring. “Protection” is a communitarian thing, in which the safety of one’s own children depends on the safe habits of one’s neighbors."

Gun people underestimate these guys at their own peril. I shudder to think that in the face of savvy, patient, successful operatives like Zach Silk, we’re offering the tone-deaf and thoroughly unlikeable Wayne LaPierre, along with mass mailings filled with fear-mongering fever swamp boilerplate about black helicopters and the NWO.

We need an NRA 2.0 to go with Gun Culture 2.0, and we need it now.
http://www.alloutdoor.com/2015/07/1...ent=2015-07-14&utm_campaign=Weekly+Newsletter
 
It is always best to go as far back to the source material to avoid distortion of the original piece since the Antis are the ones looking to hire help from the political operatives that were successful in advancing the gay marriage legalization as opposed to those folks turning their their attention to the gun control groups for free.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/07/why-gun-control-could-be-like-marriage-equality.html

Like paid soldiers looking ahead to the next war, many of marriage’s decorated officers are privately entertaining offers from the leaders of any number of leftist causes: the environment, inequality, immigration. If you can achieve that, the thinking goes, why not try this? Some have vowed to stick with the marriage-equality cause, taking the fight overseas, where anti-marriage forces are already setting up shop, in Eastern Europe and in parts of the developing world. But guns have a special salience now, after Newtown, after South Carolina, and veterans of the marriage movement see familiar terrain in guns — so familiar that they feel optimistic about being able to guide Americans to a similarly radical culture shift down the line. Like marriage a decade ago, the gun debate as it’s waged in public feels hopelessly entrenched.

***
But watching the incremental, state by state progress on marriage that accrued over many years has given anti-gun-violence activists a different template, or a battle plan, for a way forward — although Silk says this new coalescence on guns is still embryonic, reminding him of the early days, back in 2004, when Massachusetts passed the first same-sex-marriage law. But “We have more momentum than this issue has had in decades,” agrees Dan Gross, president of the Brady Campaign and Center to Prevent Gun Violence. “I do think you can make the strong case that this is the next big issue.” Gross, in fact, is so tight with Marc Solomon at Freedom to Marry and so frequently seeks his counsel “that I don’t even know his title.” (He’s National Campaign Director.) “We spend a lot of time professionally and over dinner where we have an opportunity to learn from each other. But given the success of the marriage movement,” Gross says, “I’m inclined to do a lot of listening.”

***

Second, stop trying to fight a court battle over “rights and benefits” and stop waging the war on the national level. Instead, go to the statehouses and make the change state by state.

Now similar tacks are being taken on guns. Instead of fighting the NRA in the public sphere and participating in a national debate on the Second Amendment and the constitutional rights of gun owners, activists are taking the battle to the states with ballot initiatives, especially on background checks, a gun-protection measure which 92 percent of Americans (including 92 percent of gun owners and 86 percent of Republicans) support. Since the Newtown shootings, six states — Connecticut, Colorado, Delaware, New York, Oregon, and Washington — have expanded background checks to all gun sales, including those purchased online and at gun shows.

But the most dramatic shift in the gun movement has — as in the marriage movement — one of messaging. Instead of following every mass shooting with anguished cries of outrage, and barrages of data on deaths, rounds of ammo, and millions of guns sold — together with an implicit disregard of and condescension toward the firmly held allegiances of gun owners (how could they?) — gun activists are taking a much more incremental, practical approach with a message that goes to the heart, not the head.

***
The old paradigm, says Gross, who has a background in advertising, was “keeping certain guns away from all people.” (Assault rifles, for example.) The new one, which focuses on background checks, is about “keeping all guns away from certain people.” (People with criminal records, domestic abusers, the mentally ill.) Every American, no matter how they feel about the Second Amendment, can get behind that. “It’s that notion of common values, common goals: We all want to be safer."

When Zach Silk thinks about how to articulate the values of the renovated gun movement, he uses the same words that the gun advocates use: “Community. Safety. Responsibility. Protecting my family.” In this redefining, he hopes to make a point. “Protection” isn’t an individual matter (a canard in any case, because having a gun in the house makes you exponentially less safe) in which individual patriarchs safeguard individual offspring. “Protection” is a communitarian thing, in which the safety of one’s own children depends on the safe habits of one’s neighbors.

I love how they used "paid soldiers" instead of MERCENARIES. So professional political operatives are capitalizing on any relationship to groups benefiting from the recent SCOTUS ruling? Gross, the head of the Brady Campaign, is looking for help from those same mercenaries because their success might help his off the rails organization. The Antis are going to focus on states instead of the courts or Federal law (kinda like we did and Bloomberg has been doing). They're going to try to redefine the argument and shift focus away from taking some guns away from all of us to taking all guns away from those that "can't be trusted with them" (and then they'll take all the rest). The only surprise here is if the Antis actually quit vilifying us as they've done all along.
 
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The very Constitution that marriage equality won under includes the 2nd Amendment. I support marriage equality for LGBT individuals, but going after the other rights is not a battle they will win.
 
Wanna bet?

The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world; and they have been rocking that cradle since LBJ's Great Society in the 60s.

Your attitude of denial is EXACTLY why they WILL win
 
oneounceload said:
Your attitude of denial is EXACTLY why they WILL win

Oh don't mistake my attitude for denial. I will still lobby to fight gun control like I always have.
 
Maybe so, but until WE as gun owners, present a better organized front than those folks, we WILL lose

We all need to read Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals so we know them as well as they know us.
 
Bloomberg has been campaigning heavily to create the perception that the NRA is a paper tiger. Because after all, it is hard to get politicians to push your agenda if your agenda ends up being career suicide.

Part of the narrative he has to create to sell the story is some compelling reason why something has changed so that politicians aren't reminded of 1994, 2004, 2014, etc. I think this story has a lot more to do with that angle than any likelihood that these tactics are going to cause a sea change in how people perceive firearms.
 
I don't really think it's a new tactic at all. It just worked really really well in the marriage "debate" because they were so successful at demonizing people that disagreed with them. Add to that the fact they started with a pretty much clean legal slate it's not surprising.

The same tactic likely want work with most "established freedoms"

Of course that doesn't mean sit back and do nothing but watch them fail, because then they'd likely win.
 
Folks, we are not going to entertain discussions about the gay community or gay marriage. That's not what the piece is about and following your personal opinion on the LGBT communty is getting wayyyy off topic.

The article from the New York magazine is how the political operatives from the gay marriage struggle are getting big offers from other causes, in this case the Antis. Winners get hired by losers to change their record. Nothing new in that and same here. The Antis are interesting in banking on the winning political operatives from the gay marriage effort making a change in how the Antis have approached gun-owner domination that might improve their position in advancing the gun prohibition agenda. They've switched to state efforts from Fed and switched to "moms" from lawyers. They're looking for some successful people to hire to give them new ideas that might succeed.
 
Hopefully some of the people that managed to promote same-sex marriage won't take up the cause.
Many of the pro-gay-marriage locals aren't flower-power hippy hug-you-brother types, or even gay-rights proponents, they're human rights proponents. And many of the ones I know include firearms in there.
So getting the marriage equality voters on that is going to be far from a sure win with the antis.
 
The very arguments that secure the victory for gay marriage are the ones that further cement the victory for gun rights/owners.

Make sure you vote wisely. The next POTUS will stack the SCOTUS and that will determine a lot of decisions for the next few generations.
 
If we lived in a rational world, you'd be right. However, we now live in a society that places no meaning on right/wrong, good/bad, even words have no clearly defined meaning anymore. Take a look at some recent books on Post-Modernism (the social period we are living in now) and it'll be eye opening.

Rational arguments don't carry the weight they once did, everything is emotion and group-think driven.
 
Deus Machina,

I expect the political operatives looking for a paycheck will weigh the potential financial benefits and the personal appeal of the cause in deciding what group to go to work for.

Like you, my LGB friends are mostly anti Anti and of those that aren't we agree to disagree enough that I don't see any potential for them to become active in the Anti effort.
 
Deus Machina,

I expect the political operatives looking for a paycheck will weigh the potential financial benefits and the personal appeal of the cause in deciding what group to go to work for.

Like you, my LGB friends are mostly anti Anti and of those that aren't we agree to disagree enough that I don't see any potential for them to become active in the Anti effort.
(anti)(anti) = anti^2
an exponential increase in antitude?
 
I have to agree with hso, it isn't the Gay Marriage Organizers going after guns, it's just the antis looking to hire people who were successful at creating change, the antis want change, and they have been failing at it.

Some of the GMO's will be anti, some pro, and some won't care, but for the right money they might work for the antis cause.

What anyone might think about the LBG community has absolutely nothing to do with antis looking to hire folks who pushed that cause, because they will be pushing the antis cause if that happens. What we need to focus on is, if it happens, will be how they mean to attack us and what we need to do to fight back. It won't be a Gay/Lesbian matter, it will be strictly a gun matter.
 
Unless gun control has a religious angle, I don't see the connection. Yes, they might get some of the same people from the gay rights campaign, but it's a completely different type of argument.
 
Marriage isn't codified in the Constitution.

We need to keep fighting, and winning, where it counts - In Court.

Get Active
Set An Example
Donate to SAF and NRA-ILA
 
I expect no negative results. Gun rights will keep moving forward, eventually overturning such 2A abominations like 1911,1934,1968 and 1986.

And if you got a name like Zack Silk, you got enough problems to deal with right there! :D
 
DeepSouth said:
- - - because they were so successful at demonizing people that disagreed with them.

This is why we need to work both "harder" and "smarter". Look at how any objections to this administration's questionable (illegal) actions are denigrated to being called "racist" in order to cow them into submission.
 
JTHunter:
Let's keep in mind that the type of people generally being discussed want us to forget the simple fact that "political dissent is not racism" or "dissent is not hatred" etc.

Or they want to totally obscure it.
 
I can't tell you how much I agree with your point and view....I'm 70ish and don't even know how to talk to anyone under 40....I can't even figure out how their mind works sometimes !
 
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