Possible ditching of the AR15 Dissy for the SU-16C

Status
Not open for further replies.
I am here to stay. I love the .223, and most of my military brass has bee swagged with the Swag600.
I spoke to my wife, and she has agreed to let me bring my loading bench into the house where we have some space on the tile floor so I can stay out of the heat. Time to get the 550B to rolling again. I have so many supplies around that need to be put together.
The .223 has done me well through the years on target, deer, coyotes, and crows. I don't see a pistol caliber carbine being as versatile as the .223/5.56.

As far as the .25-06, rcmodel was a good man to speak up. That has become my go to deer rifle, and even though the type of rounds I like to shoot through it are becoming harder to find versus .270 or .308 Win. I'll just have to keep working on the loads to get them within what I consider close to what the factory Winchester Supreme 115 grain loads do. I have a bunch of 115 coated Combined Technology bullets, and I have a bunch of 100 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips. So I can give it a good try. Not to mention that I have 500 85 grain soft points that I have never loaded. I have never shot anything but the 115 grain out of this gun so maybe the 100 grain or 85 grain bullets may be easier to load.
My hunch is to get the accuracy I want out of my .25-06 I'll have to give up on IMR 4350 and Reloder 19, and find me a pound of Winchester 780 Supreme.

Thanks for the conversation fellow THR members. I almost screwed myself into a lifetime of regret. I'll just keep what I got, and if money allows build on that. :)
 
Side note: Pencil barrels do not save *that much weight. The difference between a gov profile and a pencil is only a few ounces. That weight can be saved elsewhere if a slightly heavier barrel is preferred.

I always keep 2 AR's. One for varmints (9lb with optics, good for 1/2moa) and a lightweight for "militia" type use. Nightstand gun is the aforementioned 14.5" 5.8lb-er.
 
I think it is the Aim Point, the rifle length MOE hand guards, and the full stock that is adding the extra weight to my AR-15. I love to shoot it. It is very accurate with many loadings.
But like rcmodel says "I'll regret it sooner or later!" He's right. Because I regret selling my 1:9 HBAR post-ban Colt upper that was really only accurate with 55 grain bullets. When measured the 1:9 really turned out to be 1:9.7 twist, but wow could it put 55 grain pills in the same hole at 100 yards, and out to 300 yards was a hoot to shoot with extreme accuracy. I thought I needed a new 1:7" twist so I just sold the entire rifle. Which was a 20" post-ban Colt HBAR (that I paid $250), CMMG lower, DPMS parts kit, Colt blue stock, Carry Handle, and A2 hand guards, and with the used parts and upper cost I paid $517 for that AR-15 in 2007. I miss that rifle to this day! If I could get it back I would.

Then I bought a WOA upper 20" service rifle, and started shooting HP. Well it was very accurate with a 1:7 twist, but I stopped shooting HP due to illness, and always liked the looks of the rifle length hand guards, A2 stock, no carry handle and mid-lenght gas port. So I bought/built that setup. Which is what I have now. A buddy got deployed again, and gave me his Aim Point, which by the way is the only red-dot that doesn't show as two separate dots when I look through it, which I put on this rifle to help with short hunting situations with pigs and coyotes, and it works awesome.

The .25-06 was a spur of the moment buy on the day before deer season about 5 years ago, and due to the location I was given on the farm that year it left me with shots out to 350 yards. None of my 30-30s, shotguns, nor my Lee Enfield were setup for that kind of shooting. So on the way to the farm I went to the box store to get a bolt gun. Preferably a XL7 from Marlin of some sort i.e. .270, .30-06, etc. Well they had a XL7 in .25-06, and they had a .243 in another model. Maybe a Weatherby, Mossberg, or something like a Remington combo setup. That was all they had left.

I called a buddy and asked which should I buy the .243 or .25-06. A loud voice came over the phone "BUY THE .25-06! YOU WILL NOT REGRET IT!" So I did. I ended up taking two deer in one sitting just seconds apart @ 300 yards using the scope off of one of my 30-30s because I could not afford a new scope at that time, and had the 30-30 with me as a backup rifle. The scope was a Bushnell 3200 with the Firefly reticle. The power of the scope was 1.5-4x32. Not bad shooting for a large reticle scope on 4x I must say. The crosshairs took up most of the deer. :)

The next year I'd saved up to buy a Bushnell 4200 3-9x40 with Tally Rings, and took two deer also that year. All the deer shot were with the Winchester Supreme 115 grain coated ballistic tips, and they were laser beam accurate, and stone dead killers to the medium sized game. Four shots, four deer.
Now I have put a nice looking Boyds pepper laminate stock with the higher comb that the receiver and barrel sit in. I have floated the barrel, and planned on bedding the recoil lug this year. Man what I difference that stock made in felt recoil, not that the .25-06 has much, but the gun did have an awful jump to it. Straight up into my cheek and nose to where I could not keep the game in the scope. Not any longer the laminate stock helped with the correct length of pull and weight. Long story I know, but as I write this rcmodel (and others) were correct in their advice. I have put a lot into these rifles, and lost some on the way that I regret, and losing these would just be pouring salt on the wound. It is nice to know you have people on the board that can help you make rational decisions when you get the wild side of wanting something new starting to show up.

I know these rifles well, and I shoot them well. To loose them to sub-par rifles would not be a benefit at all. I'd be losing a lot of history, and also a couple good rifles that I can pass down to my kids. I highly doubt they'd get any real use from either the Sub 2000 in 9mm or the SU-16C in .223/5.56.

I will continue however to carry my Kel-Tec P32 in .32 ACP when I cannot carry my .380 Bersa Thunder. I enjoy that Bersa so much. It is so accurate out to 25 yards, and with Underwood Ammo it becomes a little more than just a .380 ACP. All in all I am not downing Kel-Tec, and I don't think others are either. I think they are just helping me rethink, and giving me time to let the notion of needing, scratch that, wanting something new pass. Good job, fellow members. I am glad you were there for me.
 
Last edited:
Having fired a handful of rifles with even mild adrenaline levels, and not hearing the shot as more than a distant pop, I'm not real concerned about the noise of a home defense shooting.

That said, I have electronic ear pro next to the rifle if there's time or if I even think about it.
 
MP-5s, Uzis, and other PCCs in favor of the AR platform. Reliability, durability, modularity, accuracy, to name a few.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone was ditching the MP5 for reliability or durability reasons. I have never heard a complaint on either of those ground concerning the MP5 from the people I know who use them professionally. In speaking with some guys who run a range that offered a couple for rental and their opinion was that the were "very reliable" They have a general reputation as a reliable weapon.

Now as to the OP wanted a kel tec over an AR. I would not. I own a sub 2K. It is a fun cheap gun that feels like a cheap gun. I actually have owned a few different ones over the years. Their build quality is pretty poor. They feel cheesy in comparison to my ARs.

I agree that 9lbs is porky for an AR. That's the weight of a 308 MBR. I would suggest simply getting a different configuration. A 16 or even a 14.5" mid length BCM with a ELW barrel and a KMR. Put a T1 on it in a lightweight mount and resist the urge to add unnecessary junk. It will be a much lighter gun and the quality and durability will be much higher than anything from KT.
Click to expand...

One of the things I pray for is that I never have to touch off a short barreled rifle inside the house.
Click to expand...

I'd rather shoot my SBR than many other options. Of course one of these helps:

View attachment 728127
 
I wouldn't blame you a bit for getting a KelTec. Nothing against the AR at all...heck I have one in the safe along with several lowers and kits ready for assembly. But GEEZ...does anyone but me get tired of seeing tricked out AR's everywhere? It's akin to everyone driving the same kind of car or wearing the same kind of clothes.

I've thought many times about buying an SU-16A or C to keep behind the seat of the pickup, and may still yet.

35W
 
I'm around a lot of guns. Must be a reason I've never seen or shot a Keltec SU16 ... people tend to own awesome guns, show them off, bring them to the range... my conclusion is that they aren't that good. Contrast that ARs are very popular.
 
I have shot them. They are fun to shoot. What lured me in was the weight, able to shoot with stock folded, and use of AR mags.
But I am over all that now. :)
 
GEEZ...does anyone but me get tired of seeing tricked out AR's everywhere? It's akin to everyone driving the same kind of car or wearing the same kind of clothes.
Click to expand...

I am bored to death with Barbied out AR's. Most owners seem to think that if they hang enough junk on their rifles, they will instantly become high-speed, low-drag operators, or at least look like one. I do have one M4gery that has a red dot on it, but other than that, no lights, rails, lasers or other tacky-cool junk to add weight. Most of mine are retro rifles with fixed carry handles.

And another thought, even if a rifle weighs eight pounds or so, is that really all that much weight?? If you are going to go all Rambo and start clearing rooms in your house, the length is going to be more of an issue than a pound here or there. Why the bipod? If it is a bench rifle the weight doesn't matter and you will shoot from a rest anyway.

If it is a hunting rifle, you already have a .25-06 which is a better all around cartridge than the .223.

And finally, if you are really looking for a lighter carbine, just put together another upper and slap that on your lower.
 
My best friend had an su-16 and it just flat out sucked. It was not very accurate, not very user friendly, just wasn't a good setup. Once we got through a few hundred rounds we both were fed up with it. I would recommend any of the other carbines first, including a hi-point 40 cal over the su16
 
I've read several reviews on the SU-16's and never really read anything bad.

I have to wonder...you fire "a few hundred rounds" then get fed up with it. What happened? Did it, I don't know.....maybe need a little maintenance?

35W
 
My rifle if you had looked doesnt have tons of junk on it. I have already said my peace regarding this thread. I have a very nice AR15 and .25-06. The AR has a FN barrel, nice trigger is dead on at 540 yard. And the 06 has proven itself in the field.
Rcmodel talked some sense into me. I am not to proud to listen to wise men.
 
Buy a $40 or $50 stripped lower. Then slowly over the next 6-8 months buy quality parts on sale to built a quality light(er) weight AR. That is what I just did, after 8 months I have everything but a RDS for about $850. Need to assemble, when I do it will weigh ~5.45lbs empty (I have already hand-weighed each part except factory specs for the optic).

I mention this option, because the dissy you have is a solid rifle that you really like. When you finish the 2nd build, pop the Aimpoint on it and run the dissy just irons.

ETA, if it were me I'd be concerned about an M68 CCO given to me from Afghanistan. Call me a "square" but I turn in all my gear after each deployment.
 
While I have kel-tec's, I would never swap the AR for Keltec's version.. Add it to your collection as a range gun, maybe. Maybe even store it in the trunk as a trunk gun. But there's no way that you could convince me that their fabrication of plastic & metal is as good as a well designed & built AR. Not even close.
 
highpower said:
I am bored to death with Barbied out AR's. Most owners seem to think that if they hang enough junk on their rifles, they will instantly become high-speed, low-drag operators, or at least look like one. I do have one M4gery that has a red dot on it, but other than that, no lights, rails, lasers or other tacky-cool junk to add weight. Most of mine are retro rifles with fixed carry handles.
Click to expand...
Then stop looking at AR threads. Your post has nothing to do with this thread. It's all well and good that you "don't need no stinkin' modern gear", but you don't know anything about the people you're talking about, and there are a whole lot of folks that do more than just stare at their rifles, or shoot them from a bench, that have a valid use for their setup.
 
I have an SU16A that I keep in the factory soft case. It's my road gun for when I'm out of town
I also have som ARs for social situations and target use.

Keep the AR, buy the KT if it appeals to you
 
Eb1 said:
I have shot them. They are fun to shoot. What lured me in was the weight, able to shoot with stock folded, and use of AR mags.
But I am over all that now. :)
Click to expand...
If you want to be able to shoot it folded and use AR15 mags...get a PAP M85NP. It's not light since it's a piston AK, but they work very well.

I've owned a few KT...they get an A for innovations, but a C- on execution. They produce junk firearms and I surely wouldn't trust my life or the lives of my loved ones with anything KT. I no longer own any KT products.

If you have to have a folding AR...look at the Law Tactical folding mechanism. You won't want to fire it folded, but it will fold to give you a more compact AR.
 
GEEZ...does anyone but me get tired of seeing tricked out AR's everywhere? It's akin to everyone driving the same kind of car or wearing the same kind of clothes.
Click to expand...

When something becomes ubiquitous, there is usually more reason for that than "It's trendy."
 
There is nothing trendy about my AR-15. It is actually the only one like it that I have seen on this forum.
 
I thought the M16 was very fragile the first time I saw one in the service. But it held together just fine. The Kel- Tec SU16 rifle are very fragile! It is OK for lite work. But it is no where near as strong as a AR15 ! I think most of the weight on ARs comes from people putting to many unnecessary accessories that they think they need. The SU-16 makes a nice lite plinker/hunting rifle to use for backpacking or on a rifle rack on a farm/ ranch. But you are smart to keep what you have & add to your collection. I would only get one of the folding stock models if you are useing it for surviviel or backpacking ect. Otherwise I would choose the new collapsing AR15 type stock model. I also shoot .223 for the most part thru it. I have had good luck with Kel-Tec guns. The only one I have had issues with was a new PF-9. I still shoot a very well used P-11! The model 2000, 9mm carbine is probably a better surviviel/ backpacking gun. J.M.T.s.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

D
  • Locked
  • Poll
Kel-Tec SU-16C or SAR-1?
Replies
14
Views
3K
engineer151515
E
jfh
  • Locked
Mech Tech / Glock 10mm or Kel-Tec SU-16C?
Replies
4
Views
1K
Deer Hunter
D
D
  • Locked
SU-16C Range Report
Replies
17
Views
1K
Panzercat
P
M
  • Locked
Kel-Tec SU-16
Replies
16
Views
3K
pktrkt
P
7
  • Locked
Help/suggestions on next .223/5.56 purchase
Replies
12
Views
833
Krusty783
K
Back
Top