Issue with USPS PFR shipping

It happened to me a few years ago with UPS (not USPS). A heavy box of bullets from Powder Valley disappeared at the UPS sort facility in Jacksonville. They never found it.

Thieves are everywhere. Make sure you insure the packages.

Gentlemen,

This is an important topic to me as both the seller and buyer are both members here, and the transaction originated in our Trading post section.
I asked the OP to start this thread.
I would appreciate any advice anyone can offer this member on the claims process how long it will take to be reimbursed.

Thanks

Doc

I worked for the USPS in a huge facility years ago. You would not believe some of the things that employees stole (or tried to steal). You might also be amazed at some of the machinery we used and how it could empty or destroy parcel post envelopes and boxes. If you have anything valuable to ship - don't send it USPS. They really don't care about your stuff. UPS isn't much better. An FFL I worked for received an empty box that originally contained a new Beretta handgun. The gun was eventually found tossed into an empty trailer in the UPS lot by an employee who we presume decided he couldn't get it through the gate. Always insure packages for full value.

I work at a regional USPS sorting facility & it is almost a daily occurrence that we see boxes of cases or bullets split open & contents spilled. Unlike the OP's example, most of the ones I see are inadequately packaged with little to no reinforcing with packaging tape, straps, etc.
If you are shipping loose packed bullets or cases please realize that, due to the weight & 'fluidity' of the contents, undue pressure is placed on the shipping container & it will become weakened & liable to rupture. I would recommend that the contents be placed in bags & those bags be put in a sturdy shipping carton, preferably double boxed (one box inside another), & a GOOD QUALITY packaging tape (not masking/painter's tape, which is often seen) liberally applied to the outside to cover all surfaces & especially the edges/corners. If you have access to a strapping/banding machine use that as well!
Just yesterday, I saw a carton that was being shipped from WA to TX that had one strip of packaging tape to seal the two flaps on the top of the box.....the bottom flaps of the box was just folded so they interlocked with no tape at all. Did the sender honestly think their parcel was going to travel some 2000 miles without some mishap? Though I'm also equally sure that when it did arrive with contents missing it would have been the fault of the USPS not the sender's inadequate packaging! So, I took the package & secured all sides with tape & strapping.
I get the impression that when some people drop their parcels off at the P.O. they envision that it will then be hand carried (on a velvet cushion) to its destination. The fact is that the USPS (& all major carriers) is highly mechanized, & that any parcel is going to pass through many hands, processed over numerous machines, stacked in sacks & shipping containers, slide down sorting conveyors, & travel by truck &/or plane before it is delivered.
Apparently the OP did everything well, & I cannot explain the box being slit open, unless it was the inertia of the contents moving that caused the perforations to 'give'. If the opening of the box does appear to be intentional I would strongly encourage photos be sent to the Postal Inspectors, they do take things (apparent theft) like this seriously. By the way, all USPS facilities have observation windows in overhead walkways spread throughout the building that the Inspectors have access to through concealed doors, where they can watch for any inappropriate/illegal activity, & while I'm sure it does happen most of the USPS employees I know & work with are well aware of the consequences of doing so.
In conclusion, I have been operating a small home-based business (Case forming, bullet molds, reloading dies, etc) for the last three years & I ship all of my orders through USPS, both domestically & overseas, to the amount of approximately 300 packages a year. To date I have had one item go missing (completely, no trace at all!), I filed a claim as directed on usps.com & received the insurance money in about six weeks. Also, in all that time not one of my packages has been received damaged or with contents missing but, as outlined above, I tend to go 'overboard' with my packaging.....in fact many of my customers have commented on the sturdiness of my shipments.
I hope this will help.

Over the years I've seen enough horror stories posted on various gun related forums about shipping stuff to come to the conclusion that if legal to do so USPS is still probably the best bet. You will find plenty of problems posted about UPS and Fed-Ex too. They all screw up at times, and most of the time USPS is cheaper, and always easier.

I shipped a stock to a buyer in NC several years ago using USPS. I had it insured and used tracking. The buyer didn't get it and tracking showed it delivered. He and I both contacted our local USPS. He was told I would have to file for insurance. They told me that since they had documentation showing that it was delivered, they considered it delivered and I had no claim.

I refunded his money and contacted his local LE and filed a theft report on-line thinking it may have been stolen off his doorstep. I was contacted a few days later by an investigator and interviewed. The investigator called his local USPS and they "found" the stock and delivered it a few days later. The buyer then sent me a 2nd check.

All worked out in the end, the transaction just took about 2 weeks instead of 3-4 days.

dfg

USPS is the only way that I will ship. I ship a lot of stuff personally and professionally and for me, USPS is the only game in town. I have very little problem with them with the hundreds of parcels that I handle, annually. Y'all use whomever does the best for you.

I sold a lot of stuff on eBay for a few years.

And nothing left here in a box without several wraps of clear packing tape, or USPS Prioity Mail packing tape wrapped end to end, and sideways until the box looked like a mummy.

Also used a lot of bubble wrap to cushion the ends & sides of the box.

Never lost anything, or had anything damaged in several hundred shipments.

rc

All alike.

It doesn't matter who you use. UPS, USPS and Fedex are a pain in the behind when anything is damaged or missing. You need to inspect it while the driver is there. I have had a couple of scopes damaged while they were on the gun but because they were received by an FFL and then transffered to the buyer Fedex didn't want to reimburse me or the buyer. I had to threatened switching to UPS before I got any satisfaction.

If you are shipping loose packed bullets or cases please realize that, due to the weight & 'fluidity' of the contents, undue pressure is placed on the shipping container & it will become weakened & liable to rupture

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The Mil-specs for shipping containers delineate the load types into three categories... normal, difficult and very difficult.

The classic example of the very difficult load type is a box full of ball bearings.... which will apply pressure to both the floor and walls and tend to shift with inertial forces.

A box of bullets is a lot like a box of ball bearings.... and I've had double boxed shipments of Berry's plated bullets that were busted open and leaking bullets.

Missouri bullets uses a very stout double wall box with heavy duty staples stitching at the joints. Never had one of theirs bust open.

tcoz, I've been working in USPS sorting facilities for just shy of eighteen years &, to my knowledge, there are no x-ray machines used on freight. The only time we know anything 'questionable' or 'valuable' is in a package is when it breaks open! One time I had a box containing .22 LR ammo (being returned to CCI on a warranty claim) burst open.....it had been sent from across the country, so had travelled (by air!) some 3000 miles, surely if packages were x-rayed one containing LIVE AMMUNITION should have been one that would have shown up!
Unless there is a distinguishing label, or other markings, on the outside of the box it would be a crap shoot for a postal worker to open it to take what was inside hoping it was something valuable. You mentioned in your OP that you had shipped the bullets in a Small Flat Rate Box, so it would have been one of hundreds, all basically identical, going through the facility that day.
By the way, firearms are not prohibited to be sent through USPS. Anyone can ship a long-gun through the mail, though if going interstate it must be sent to a FFL holder. Handguns can also be mailed, though only FFL to FFL. Strangely enough, handguns are one item that I can usually spot in the mail stream, due to the fact that they are generally addressed to a Gun Shop, Pawn Shop, etc, & carry insurance. However, I think this is mainly with me being a shooter & knowing what to look for, as when I've pointed the packages out to co-workers they didn't have a clue!

joem1945 said:

I guess thieves work everywhere. I HATE THIEVES.

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As do I. But it's hard for me to believe someone would risk a good paying civil service job for a mere 1000 .224 bullets. I buy large quantities of bullets online and have had them shipped to me via various shippers including the USPS. I have had damaged and lost bullets from most all carriers, even when bullets are double boxed. There are times when the boxes appeared on my doorstep just as in the OP. Generally the seller replaced any that were missing as they accepted the fact their packaging and the way the packages are handled was the problem. I would wait and see how the USPS handles this as to if I ever used them again or not. If the insurance does not cover the contents, it is not their fault, as they give the shipper the option to have more.

Montana Gold also uses the double box with the inside one being very heavy duty with a heavy duty liner bag inside. Some get to me in perfect shape, some look sort of squashed. Iv'e only had one where both boxes were split open and the interior plastic bag saved any from being lost.
Weighing in at about 68.5 pounds I do find it amazing any of them make it in one piece because most of the mail people hate them. I had one of our home delivery people refuse to deliver them and they would send them on a special truck at the end of the day which did not work out well at all for me so I got a PO box to solve that problem and that has worked well. I find it interesting that a PO employee could refuse to deliver a Flat Rate box being the flat rate boxes have probably kept the PO from totally becoming a tax payer subsidy. Something about physically unable to perform a job.
Never have had one lost coming or going so even with some short comings the USPS flat rate boxes are really the only game in town and when it comes to bullets/weight and I will continue to use them.
Unless you have a business account Fed-Ex and UPS are prohibitively expensive. Speaking of UPS I just receiver a package through them yesterday that took 15 days to get here from Omaha after it got to Portland , OR and they put it back on a truck to Illinois and back west again. When you get customer service they don't care and it's not lost just gaining frequent flyer miles so there is nothing they can do.
My local USPS where my box is on the other hand gives me excellent service and help with any problems to the best of their limited ability. Up to and including letting me have my large/heavy boxes after they close if they are still in the back. To their advantage as well I understand because if there are multiple heavies they just put them in a cart and want them out of their way as well.
Our local Fed-Ex driver gave me his cell so when tracking says it's coming and let him know a good time to deliver and bam it's here. He doesn't want it on his truck forever and have to make multiple stops for the same package. So that turns into good customer service.
UPS has 3 different drivers that cover my area and won't even tell you who has it.

So for my vote:

USPS #1 unless it's Haz-mat

Fed-Ex #2

UPS only if no one else can do it.

I won't be using the USPS any longer. Now I have to research the rates for UPS and FedEx

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I've found the best option for shipping bullets is through USPS. Because of the weight, their flat rate boxes are by far the most economical. Plus, they are sturdy and allow weights up to 70 pounds to be shipped.

Postal Claim

tcoz this happened to me. I expected a long drawn out affair, but I received a check from the post office in about two weeks after the claim was filed.

jmr40, If it had been delivered...it would have required a signature on an item over $100 and you can make USPS produce the signature...or they will have to pay the claim.

Probably what happened is there was no one available to sign for the package and the carrier mistakenly scanned the package "delivered" rather than"attempted"...he then returned the package to the post office, awaiting pickup and signature of the recipient.

As I said, I have a LOT of experience with USPS...and I am very pleased with the service.

USPS opened box

I received a box of approximately 3 pounds of #6 lead shot sent by a forum member from the "Pay it Forward" thread.

The box appeared to have been opened as one end was perfectly cut and flapped open. This box was the small "if it fits, it ships Priority Mail" box sold by the USPS. The sender had packed the lead shot in a heavy duty freezer zip loc bag, rolled up and taped solid. This bag of shot was cushioned by plastic grocery bags on the inside. The box was not otherwise crushed or damaged, just opened with a knife. The box was put back together and wrapped with rubber bands delivered.

It was obvious to me someone got nosy or was looking for heavy valuables and only found lead so repacked it? There was no explanation attached to the box as to what happened.

This was just last week.

I have shipped many USPS 1096L and 1096S boxes full of 50BMG bullets all over the country. I use packaging tape and strapping tape. Never had a package come open.

I am awaiting a package now that was supposed to have been delivered by Fed Ex between 7/10 and 7/20. I did a search via the tracking function, and learned they switched the packed from Fed Ex custody to USPS on the 16th. At that point it has apparently disappeared. I sent a complaint to the vendor via Amazon, and got an e-mail that they sent a notice to the USPS. Last record of the package being anywhere is on the 23rd. Seven days ago. Tracking lists it as still "on the way". I have already asked for a cancellation and refund. We will see how this sordid little drama goes....... :banghead:

I have had boxes damaged before. Had a box of 500 .357 bullets all scattered throughout the larger box that contained several smaller packages. The corner of the large box was split too, and several of the bullets were scattered on my deck.

A buddy once ordered a C&R pistol, and found it stuffed in his mailbox, box damaged and the butt end sticking out exposed and visible to anyone walking by (mailbox couldn't be closed). He got REAL LUCKY that he received it.

I get most of my bullet shipments from Midway, who ships them to me via that weird UPS/USPS alliance; UPS takes it from them and delivers it to my local Post Office, who then delivers it to me. I've never received a damaged or missing shipment of bullets.

That said, where I work, when we have a new product package, we always test it for durability during shipping. One of the tests we call "The UPS Test." Basically, we throw it around and kick it like a soccer ball - treat it essentially like we know they will probably treat it - to see if the product and packaging will hold up under extreme conditions. If the packaging can't hold up to at least a fall from about 6 feet, it's inadequate.