Decision on a press ... Forster, T-7, Summit?

Reloading on a single stage isn't really a high speed process to begin with. I recently changed from a closed frame RCBS to an open framed Redding T7 and although the open frame is easier to work with I wouldn't say that there was great deal of increase in speed.

Your choices are pretty high priced for a limited amount of reloading. Fine press's but costly. A solid single stage like the RCBS Rock Chucker supreme master would save you a ton of money and give you all the other essentials. Lifetime warranty.



On sale here:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/937051/rcbs-rock-chucker-supreme-master-single-stage-press-kit

Here is a old thread on just this (another forum)

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3806012.0

The easy die change on the Forester would be a desirable option. On a T7 once all the dies are set all one has to do is rotate the turret and that's a desirable feature. If you are planning to prime on the press not all priming set ups on single stage presses are created equal. Some priming set ups work better than others. How the spent primers are captured is another thing to look at on a single stage. Some presses will bounce spent primers all over the floor.

Personally, I do not see any operational advantage to a turret press over a single stage. The turret is more expensive than a single stage and the extra funds could be used to buy other reloading equipment.

An O-frame press such as the Redding Big Boss or Big Boss II or an RCBS Rockchucker would serve you well. I like my Redding Big Boss. I used it for everything in the past but now load most of my handgun rounds on a progressive. The main O-frame presses made today have the O-frame canted and the front support does not get in the way.

There some folks that like turret presses though. It suits their operation.

Single stage presses are handy to have around even if you move on to a progressive in the future. They do some specialized tasks that cannot be done on a progressive or turret press.

The only downside to the Forster from what I've seen is the priming system. It's behind the rams on top. Looks like a nice, precise system, but not as ergonomic as some others.

OTOH the priming arm on the T-7 works on the down stroke and you don't get the best leverage or feel. It's fine for blaster ammo, but for serious ammo I use a RCBS ram prime on top of my T-7.

I like the T-7 for making revolver ammo, Resize/deprime at station 1 then a quick flip to station 2 and expand/flare. Faster than doing each step separately in a single stage, you don't have to move the case in and out of the press for each operation.

Same for seating and crimping, just a quick flip between the dies instead of the ol' in and out for each step.

For .45 auto I use it in the 'semi-progressive' mode, going through 5 stations from start to finish without removing the case. Far faster than a single stage there.

I love the T-7, great ergonomics, plenty of strength and precision, a little boost in speed and a reduction in setup time. Bought mine about 8 years ago when they first came out, no regrets at all.

The Summit is a neat press, would love to give one a try.

I have loaded on a Bonanza(Forster) Co-Ax since the early '80s ... before that I used a RCBS Rockchucker ....

I don't believe you will find a finer made press for procession work ... the ease of die change and the most precise priming system out there ... it is no speed demon but neither is any other single stage press ...

I'm not very experienced but I've done a LOT of studying on the CoAx & T7 and don't think you could go wrong either way. Personally I think the T7 would be the most versitle choice for your wants. I will also say that in much reading I've observed that a whole lot of very knowledgable folks that write on the subject have chosen the T7 for their press.

A starting press you will never outgrow

After loading on a Rockchucker for a few years and Lee Pro-1000 presses for a couple decades, I upgraded to my current press and am much happier.

Bold (not "old" as I had it before editing this post) subject line, eh? Let me qualify it down. I load for handgun only; 5 calibers, about 100-400 rounds per session and about 5,000 rounds a year. I stow my gear in 3 medium size toolboxes when not in use. If this comes close to describing your situation, you might like to read on.

35 years after starting, I found I outgrew some gear and overbought elsewhere. So, I cleaned house. I emptied my bench and populated it with the best equipment I could find precisely fitting my loading needs. I could have saved a lot of experimentation and waste if I had known back then what I know now (about handloading and about myself).

Informed by my experience reconstituting my loading bench, I compiled a list of the barest essentials that would allow a novice loader to load well and which would still be gratifying in 30 years. (In my opinion and somewhat matching my style of shooting and loading.)

I think it makes an ideal shopping list for the handloader just starting out. I hope you do, too.

Press, scale, dies, a way to measure powder and a work surface are all you need, really. Everything else just makes it easier or faster.

$17 ABC's of Reloading. Ok, it's not really equipment, but tools without knowledge is just dead weight, right?
$10 Loading Data. The "One book/One Caliber" pamphlets are $10 each and are LOADED (get it?) with loading data.
$0 Loading manuals. They cost, but I didn't want to skew the budget; you do need at least a couple. Check the local library if money is tight.
$0 Eye protection. No cost, because you DO already have a pair of shootingglasses, DON'T YOU!?
$85 Press, Lee Classic Turret (Chosen because Lee makes the only turret presses that auto-advances at the discretion of the operator and the Classic is superior to the Deluxe for several features.)
$33 Dies, carbide. Lee because it includes a shell holder, a plastic dipper for powder and the "powder through" design.
$5 Work surface. Mount your press on a plank of scrap 2x8 and secure it to a (padded) coffee table.
$0 Dropcloth to catch any spilled powder or lost primers (dead or live). Use an old sheet. Quieter than plastic, less static and drapes better.
$150 plus shipping At this point, you can reload, but are limited in flexibility and speed.
$8 Lee Scoops/Dippers. Cheaper than any powder dispenser/measure and repeatability/cosistency is excellent.
$3 Powder funnel. Lee's funnel fits right in the their "powder through" die.
$161 plus shipping At this point, you are minimally equipped to load well. Not too convenient, but not handicapped to the point of terminal frustration, either.
$22 Lee Safety Prime. You can use your fingers, but this is so much better. Fits on the Lee Press.
$21 Scale, any brand. Lee's, at $21 is cheapest. You can do without, with the full set of Lee Dippers, but better to weigh. For peace of mind if nothing else.
$204 plus shipping At this level of investment, you are decently equipped
$33 Lee Auto-Disk powder dispenser/measure. It mounts atop Lee's "Powder through" die. With this, you may not need the funnel or dippers.
$50 Loading Bench. A folding workbench works fine for me. You can get a kit or build your own, too.
$287 plus shipping Now you are well-equipped as most reloaders, except for convenience accessories or tools you will use only occasionally.

Other stuff:
$20 Bullet puller I never used one for my first 20 years of loading.
$30 Calipers I had none for 30 years. Now that I do, I find uses.
$50 Tumbler Never had one. Got one now. My brass is prettier. Shoots the same.
$10 Loading blocks ($5, if you use, use two). For batch loading. Buy, or make with a plank and a drill.
$25 Powder Trickler - handy if you weigh each powder charge.

$34 misc accessories & tools, (e.g. chamfer tool)
$60 Difference to get a more user-friendly scale than the Lee
$0 Turret and Dies for 38/357 (included with basic setup)
$46 Turret and Dies for 45/454
$46 Turret and Dies for 44
$46 Turret and Dies for 45 ACP
$46 Turret and Dies for 9mm
$700 plus shipping To duplicate my entire current loading bench with all new stuff, misc accessories and tools and I would not be in the least inconvenienced in my loading endeavors.

There are many accessories that add convenience of functionality, but are so highly optional they do not belong on this "essentials" list, or belong down near the end. Besides, if I included them all, the list would be endless.

I chose a turret instead of a progressive because I am more comfortable with performing and monitoring one operation at a time and changing calibers is dead simple. I chose a turret instead of a single stage because it facilitates processing in a "pass-through" mode (much like a progressive) rather than the batch mode of the single stage. But I still do have the option of operating as a single stage in batch mode if I choose.

You could build this list using any mix of brands. I chose Lee's brand because the Auto-indexing is not available on any other press and the Auto-Disk powder measure is the most convenient I have seen, in combination with the Lee "Powder through the Die" design. The Auto-Disk is not convenient to adjust powder quantity, but it is light and compact.

Lost Sheep

P.S.
Thanks to Sue Kempf at Kempf's Gun Shop, and Mark and the guys at Factory Direct Sales and the technicians in Customer Support at Lee Precision.

As I mentioned above, for loading 45 Colt your choices are overkill. Yes, they are great pieces of equipment. The RCBS is probably the most popular single stage press ever made and as to quality it will last several lifetimes.

The choice of spending money is of course yours. Price the press and ALL the other stuff you will need.

I do not need a BMW to drive to Wal Mart.

I am surprised the boys in Blue have not yet said to get a Dillon Progressive .

I am surprised the boys in Blue have not yet said to get a Dillon Progressive

Click to expand...

Somebody did in the other thread he's got running....

As the guys are saying you can load handgun ammo on just about anything. Buying a better press won't make it easier, faster or better. So that's why some of us are saying that a Forster is overkill for this application.

The things to watch for that WILL make it easier and faster to swap dies I already posted in your other thread. Along with two options for "good enough" presses for doing handgun ammo and even for a lot of good rifle reloading.

the big deal with the Forster and a few other presses is that it has a longer ram stroke than some presses. So it'll do the longer rifle cartridges where some other presses won't handle the lengths.

But if you don't plan on ever buying a rifle chambered in one of the longer and more powerful rifle rounds then you won't miss the extra room.

I'd suggest that you come up with a short list of presses and watch some videos about then on You Tube to get a feel for the different styles.

Many of us use the closed loop frame style presses like the Lee breechloc , Hornady Lock N' Load, RCBS, Redding, etc.

Then there's some different turret presses. The Lee has been mentioned already and there's also a Lyman turret press that is worth checking out.

Then there's the Forster you're considering. And another of the deluxe style presses is the fairly new RBS Summit press which I'd also suggest you watch a few videos of. I like that the Summit has even more access room than the Forster.

I know that you haven't done any reloading yet but the videos of others that are reloading with the presses should be able to give you a feel for the whole operation and the ease of access to the working area of each press.

Another upper end press that has

wiiawiwb said:

What has me shying away from it is the priming method. I liked everything about the T-7 except that.

Click to expand...

Many folks, including me, prime off the press with either a hand priming tool or a bench mounted tool.

One opinion is you get a better feel seating the primer than with a press mounted priming system.

So, the press mounted priming system should not be a deal killer if the rest of the press suits your needs.

In some respects, buy the press whose color best matches the decor in your reloading room. It will serve you well.

wiiawiwb said:

I was planning on getting a Forster Co Ax until I read comments from some about the ergonomics of it and how access from the side is restricted. Is that a real enough issue to forget about the Co Ax? Is it something to just slow down the process or a total hindrance?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Click to expand...

Only problem those folks are having with "access" is, they mounted the press wrong...

When you mount a Co-ax, turn it toward you a little and there will be no access problems. I mounted mine "into" my bench a little...

For loading pistol rounds, IF I could afford a Co-ax, it's exactly what I'd get! It's not the cheapest press, but it's the press I like to load on best....

DM

BCRider said:

the big deal with the Forster and a few other presses is that it has a longer ram stroke than some presses.

Click to expand...

My Co-ax is easily "adjustable" for "stroke length", so that's another advantage of the Co-ax...

DM

Have you visited this site??

http://ultimatereloader.com/

Yes the press is a "main" part of reloading and the biggest but you most important piece is a quality scale, Going to spend big money on a press and buy a $25.00 electronic scale?

Anyone starting reloading needs to consider how much ammo they actually need and how much time and money you have to devote to reloading,

Want to change a turret plate on a T7 to add a caliber without unscrewing the dies?? How much is one of those! $75

The price of reloading goes up a lot when your factor in all the other things you are going to need which is why I suggested the RCBS press kit.

I can't speak about the others but I have a T7 with the optional primer system. Great press, primer system is a joy to use with a very positive feel when seating primers. Spent primers drop through the ram and can be collected in a container. The ability to mount multiple dies is a plus in my opinion.

I have been very happy with it, can't think of any negative experiences. I will size and prime on the press remove the shell charge off the press (single case or multiple ) put charged case back in shell holder and complete the round.

I have a progressive press that I use for high volume needs. I use the T7 for rifle and low volume hand gun. It fills my needs perfectly and is a very well made press.

Mike

just 45LC. Maybe 454 Casull and/or 9mm down the line

Click to expand...

When changing cartridges, leave your dies preset, using the
Toolhead with the Dillon BL 550 Basic Loader. The interchangeable toolhead makes it quick, easy and inexpensive to change calibers.

I never bought the primer tube system for the T-7, I just place the primer by hand into the primer arm. Right there in front, no extra cost.

The other advantage is you can prime right after re-sizing/de-priming, saving another move with the case.

Both the optional primer system and OEM priming system on the T7 seemed awkward to me and because of that I quit priming on the press.

R.C.B.S Rockchucker can't be faulted for quality & longevity .
If you ever advance as a reloader it is difficult not to wind up going blue . square deal , 550 B , 650, 1050 . Speed cost money . How fast do YOU want to go ?

BMW vs. Ford. I guess my response to that is where else in any other aspect of my life am I going to have the opportunity to drive a Beemer rather than a Ford for $150?

Click to expand...

And that is certainly very valid. You'll certainly never outgrow a Forster or any other high end single stage. So if it's not going to make you miss a mortgage payment or make you eat ramin noodles for a month then by all means go high end. Hell, it's still cheaper than buying just about any gun you can think of.

The priming on the press on the Forster doesn't really tickle me. But then many on press methods are rather ugly regardless of company. I'd far rather use a hand priming tool than do them one at a time on that rather difficult to reach priming facility between the guide rods.

Others that use the tip out priming tool that fits into the ram at least present the primer cup out front where it's easy to use.

As mentioned there's also much to be said for the style where you can size and decap then set the primer in the cup and press into place on the downstroke so you lower the amount of handling for each casing.

And that's the secret to loading hand gun ammo a little quicker with a single stage press. You're committed to placing and pulling the lever 3 times per round already. Don't look for ways to add a a fourth pull. The Lee, Hornady, Redding and Lyman T7 at least give you a way to size, decap and seat the primer all with one placement and lever operation.

You may not be looking at this as important now. But when you're fumbling with primers and need to accurately place the cases in another step to seat the primer you'll realize that this is a rather key element. Especially if the casing needs to be seated with care so the primer is guided into place with the required degree of accuracy. Adjusting the little casing guide plates on the Forster seems like it would quickly become an exercise in frustration. Or at least annoying. Sets of dies come with the right size cartridge holder. I feel that I may as well use a press that takes advantage of that and makes swapping from one size round to the next easier by using the correct size shell holder. So for my self I don't see a big advantage in the Forster method for holding the cases in either the die position or the priming station at the back of the press when it's so easy to snap the proper size shell holder into and out of place on a regular style press. And especially when the dies all come with these shell holders already.

So for my money I see the Forster as more of a Ferrari where the things it does well it does brilliantly. But like any exotic car it also comes with a few quirks that the owner is expected to like but where in reality they can be a trifle annoying. The on press priming setup on the Forster certainly qualifies as a quirk.

But that's my opinion. Go back and watch some more You Tube videos and make up your own mind on this.

In the end while I don't find my Hornady LnL to be perfect I do like the front access to all the possible features being located in the same area. It avoids arm strain during any longer sessions where one position can be set up for minimum strain but the other position for priming now becomes more of a reach. Meanwhile the Hornady, RCBS, Redding and Lyman put ALL the handling needs right in the same spot. So you can set up for minimal repetitive motion and a good view of the position.

If you're mostly loading hand gun ammo sizing the casings also does not take a whole lot of effort. So that's another point where the rather long overhand travel of the Forster arm is rather wasted. It offers lighter travel for long rifle cases which might come in handy for later. But the long travel for handgun ammo will quickly prove to be slower and become annoying when you have to move it so far and only need about 1/4 of the full travel to do any actual work.

I hear you that it's not about the money. And that being the case keep the Forster in mind for later perhaps for when you begin loading rifle rounds if some other press doesn't turn out to work as well. In the meantime though I think you might find that you'll enjoy a press intended for shorter ammo more as being better suited to loading handgun and shorter rifle rounds.