Courageous big game hunting runs afoul

but it's 100% ok to standby while a half dozen baby lions are slaughtered?

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That's what lions do. It's nature. It isn't good or bad, it just is. And it was going to happen whether that male lion died from an arrow or from another lion taking over the pride. This crop of cubs or the next, it's what lions do. The fate of the cubs matters not at all as it has not changed. The fact that it was even brought up in the article shows bias from those reporting, or at the very least it shows ignorance of how nature works in regard to these animals.

The blaming of the media isn't the issue here either. Unless you have something to back your suspicions about errors of fact, then you can't claim the media is suspect of distorting the story and then rely on information from the story to support your point.

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I'm not relying on the media to support my point. I'm pointing out discrepancies in the story as it was reported. The media is always suspect. Especially when the sources are notoriously against hunting. One can reasonably assume that the story is absolutely going to be portrayed a certain way. In effect, they hate us and you're gonna stick up for them??? Surely you're not that naive.

I'm not trying to stick up for the guy. I would just rather judge based on the truth, than the opinions of people who hate us. I want justice above all but I'm not gonna take a media report and run under a log with it.

No, we may not know the details of the bear hunt, but we do know the conviction.

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More information..

http://www.startribune.com/zimbabwe-2-to-appear-in-court-for-killing-cecil-the-lion/318828251/

In 2008, he pleaded guilty in federal court in Wisconsin to misleading a federal agent in connection with the hunting of a black bear. Two years earlier, Palmer had killed a bear near Phillips, in Price County. That location was 40 miles outside of the zone where he held a permit to hunt bear.

Palmer and others transported the bear carcass to a registration station inside the allowed hunting zone, according to court documents, and at the station, he falsely certified that the bear had been killed in the legal zone. Facing a maximum penalty of five years in prison, Palmer was sentenced to one year’s probation and fined nearly $3,000.

In the spring of 2003, Palmer was convicted in Otter Tail County in western Minnesota and paid a small fine for fishing without a license, a misdemeanor.

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LOL, not sticking up for the media. Just pointing out your flawed logic of saying you suspect everything, and then taking media reported information to support your opinion, CraigC.

If you have sources other than the media to support your assertions, please share them. You failed to do so in the previous posts..

It matters not whether the media likes hunters or not if the information they report is accurate. Can you identify specific facts that are not accurate, or are you just saying things must not be right because they are in the media?

I am certainly not so naive as to believe that PHs won't do anything illegal, LOL.

Just pointing out your flawed logic of saying you suspect everything, and then taking media reported information to support your opinion, CraigC.

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Yeah, that's not what I'm doing.

My ASSERTION is that the media can't be trusted. If I have to explain to you that they are selective and biased when it comes to the truth, I can't help you. If I have to explain to you that anti-hunters believe a lot of crap about us that isn't true, I can't help you.

If you want to take the story as it was reported and run with it, you'll find no shortage of company.

My OPINION is that we should reserve judgement until we have the facts.

akv3g4n said:

I can't really fathom anyone that would defend the practice of baiting an animal...

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I have been told many times that baiting an animal is unethical, and that the proper way to do it is to grow a food plot or hunt over a planted field... because, it's totally not baiting then... You know... because the corn grew there instead of coming out of a bag...

That's pretty much why this look was invented:

leadcounsel said:

I just have nothing "Hiroad" to say...

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You were right, you didn't.

Sounds like a snippet from PETA's website. All you're doing is parroting the anti-hunting crap we hear from those folks all the time. Arguing with you is like arguing with an anti (hunting or firearms ownership). All aside from the actions of the men in question. Do you know that some areas (Zambezi?) have more elephants than the habitat can support? It's not about how many elephants there are overall. It's about how many there are for each specific habitat. Do you know what happens when it reaches critical mass? Either the government goes in and culls them from the air or the elephants destroy the habitat for ALL critters looking for something to eat. So which do you think is more effective, allowing the carefully regulated sport hunting of elephants, which is a huge boon to the local economy or government culling from helicopters only AFTER the problem has become too big to ignore?

The undeniable FACT is that it is entirely possible to have legal sport hunting of sustainable populations of these animals. It's no different from the whitetail deer in the US. A species that was nearly gone just over 100yrs ago. However, through diligent conservation and management, there are more deer now than ever before. Do some research and find out what has happened in those areas where hunting has been banned. Poaching has soared.

... that's despicable and not hunting. That's shooting a defenseless creature you tricked.

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Ok, while I haven't formed an opinion on the facts of this case, that has GOT to be the single funniest line I've read on THR all dang year!

I know the hilarity is probably unintentional, and it sounded worthy in your mind, but dang, that's funny! Good show!





Of course, REAL hunting looks like THIS:

Alright, now THAT is funny!

leadcounsel said:

condone it including this Jimmy Kimmel

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Goodness gracious, invoking Jimmy Kimmel convinced me.

I support hunting...but not this hunting.
This lion was well known enough that it is hard to believe that the PH didn't recognize it.
It's more likely that it was targeted for its distinctive mane.
Dispicable.

wankerjake said:

...the one who brought it up for the sole purpose of trolling.

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Maybe. He's done this type thing before: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=6138367#post6138367

His world view hasn't changed. As you might want to read in that thread, H&H and others should take great credit in regards to their efforts to educate this OP on the topics he just doesn't understand. Obviously wasn't successful, but educational to anyone else looking to learn about this realm of hunting.

leadcounsel is quite a decent member on THR. His stuff is often great. But in this subforum, it's too often the same. Misguided, misinformed, I don't know. I imagine as H&H said...

H&Hhunter said:

Leadcouncil is spouting 100% pure Animal rights doctrine. There is no point in arguing with these people.

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In fact the only reason that we still have wild life outside of parks in Africa. Of course emotion wins over the truth every time with the pop culture.

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100% true. I wonder what could be accomplished if sportsmen and animal rights activists actually worked together against poaching, rather than each other.


“In a civilized and cultivated country, wild animals only continue to exist at all when conserved by the sportsman. The excellent people who protest against all hunting, and consider sportsmen as enemies of wildlife, are wholly ignorant of the fact that in reality the genuine sportsman is by all odds the most important factor in keeping wild creatures from total extermination.” – Theodore Roosevelt

leadcounsel said:

It's sad and naive to think that killing these majestic animals is somehow helping them.

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Let me tell you a little story about how the real world works. There are certain species of animals that exist in larger numbers on game ranches here in the United States than they do in their native habitats. Those animals exist here because the land owners offer that species for hunting and at price much more affordable than an African safari. Now, in order to have a heard large enough to grow the trophy sized animals that the hunters want, you will naturally have far more non trophy animals in it will live out their lives without ever being hunted. So what you end up with is herds of animals living in greater numbers, and more safely than they do in their native habitat.

Hunters in essence are paying to protect entire species.

But then you get the interlopers. Such as several years ago when a bunch of well meaning individuals convinced the lawmakers to make it illegal to hunt an animal here in the US if it was endangered or extinct in it's native environment. What do you think happened to those herds of thousands of animals living in the US? If you guessed that they all died just before the law keeping them from being hunted went into effect, you are right. The land owners couldn't afford to keep them if they couldn't offer them for hunting. The people who thought they were protecting the animals led to far more deaths than the hunters ever would have caused.

How's that for irony?

I have a suggestion. Take the $xxx,xxx amount of money, DON'T kill one of the species, and instead donate it directly to a conservation organization.

Then get a hobby that doesn't involve the moral equivalent of dog fighting.

Problem solved.

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Thing is according to historical FACTS your incorrect.
You really should read the sticky.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=189864

Not to mention anyone who could say, as you did:

I certainly don't care about the plight of some African tribes who have produced too many babies and cause their own overpopulation problems. I certainly care MORE about the near extinct elephants than about some 3rd world Zimbabwe getting his farm trampled

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I mean really, that's your moral high ground? Let the people die, save the animals. That's sick my friend.

These hunts are done by "folks" with too much money and no idea how to wisely spend it.

If it's about conservation - which is the argument - write a check to any number of valid conservation organizations. Frame the check on the wall.

It's not. It's about blood lust and ego. Plain and simple. A trophy to hang on the wall, and pretend one is a tough guy, great and brave hunter. Cowards in my view. Baiting, luring, shining lights on them, and shooting them. Wow, some brave hunting tale. What a sad joke.

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Wow, the arrogance is mind boggling. So you not only know better than the wildlife biologists upon whose recommendations hunting is regulated but you also know better how we should all live our lives??? That's just awesomely fascist. Sounds EXACTLY like the emotion-driven "logic" anti-gunners use in their efforts to disarm us. You're able to read minds to understand why people go to Africa to hunt and you're convinced that it's strictly for the above reasons? Are you Superman???

It's sad and naive to think that killing these majestic animals is somehow helping them.

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It's stupid to believe otherwise. So you must think that hunting the whitetailed deer is leading to their extinction? Elk? Wild hogs? Care to back that up with facts?

Fact is, you are simply wrong. Legal sport hunting is NOT a threat to their future. It's rampant, uncontrolled poaching. It's habitat loss. Do you know what happens when landowners cannot make money through legal hunting? It either gets farmed or grazed. Neither of which are compatible with the animals you 'think' you're protecting. Sport hunting is a way for the animals to pay their way. Otherwise, there's no incentive for landowners to perpetuate their existence.

How much money do you send to so-called conservation groups, a couple hundred bucks a year? How much of that gets spent on actual conservation? What does their brand of "conservation" entail? The $50,000 a single hunter might spend going after Cape buffalo, lion, elephant or leopard goes directly into conservation. It provides jobs for locals, which discourages poaching. It provides meat for local tribes, which discourages poaching. It provides eyes on the ground, which discourages poaching. It keeps watering holes open, which discourages poaching. The hefty fees for licenses go directly into anti-poaching efforts.

There really is no difference between wealthy "hunters" and poachers, other than their ability to bride the government to get a license.

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That's a VERY ignorant, arrogant and inflammatory statement that would really piss me off if I let it. Further proof that you really don't know what you're talking about.

CraigC said:

It's stupid to believe otherwise. So you must think that hunting the whitetailed deer is leading to their extinction? Elk? Wild hogs?

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Those of us in Texas are kind of hoping that it does.... but haven't been successful so far.

Hunting lions isn't a problem and so far I've not seen anything that proves anything illegal happened. If it is proven true that the hunter was illegal I'll be the 1st to condem his actions. At this point it is still uncertain.

DeepSouth said:

I mean really, that's your moral high ground? Let the people die, save the animals. That's sick my friend.

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Birds of a feather?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lls-extradited-charged-preferably-hanged.html

People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA), which said on its Twitter account that Palmer should hang for killing Cecil.

'If, as reported, this dentist & guides lured #CeciltheLion out of the park with food so as to shoot him on private property because shooting #CeciltheLion in the park would have been illegal, he needs to be extradited, charged, &, preferably, hanged.'

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