Obrez!

I recall someone a while back used a chunk of the original stock to add a vertical pistol grip extension to the broomhandle you show there (with proper reinforcement) and found it a astronomical improvement.

TCB

Given the fireball the carbine shoots that thing should start brush fires for a hundred yards in front of it when fired......

Cooldill ...I know I'll need a form 1 to do this... but I don't have a trust. Do I need one, is their a way around it?

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To make an SBR requires an approved Form 1. There are three ways to apply:
1. As an individual, requiring CLEO signature, photo and prints.
2. As a trust, corporation or other legal entity.

Trusts and corporations currently do not require CLEO signature, prints or photo.

About how long does it take after sending in all the paperwork?

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If you use ATF Eforms, it can take less than a month to receive your approved Form 1.

XXX

"If you use ATF Eforms, it can take less than a month to receive your approved Form 1."
That's old data, circa several months ago when they first got Eforms half-working (most of the time). People have since heard how much the times dropped, and now there're like twice or three times as many forms jumping into the stream (mine included). Now the wait's back up to 6-9 months (the site said 6mo estimate last week when I submitted) but the throughput is vastly larger --which is a good thing, at the end of the day

TCB

barnbwt said:

Now the wait's back up to 6-9 months (the site said 6mo estimate last week when I submitted) but the throughput is vastly larger --which is a good thing, at the end of the day

TCB

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The wait when you e-file is definitely not up to 6 months. Between myself and friends we are regularly getting e-file form 1's approved and they are averaging 10-14 weeks.

I too have wanted to do an Obrez but hate chopping up historical items. I figured if I found a junker or one with a very poor bore like you have then I would pull the trigger on it.

Re E-Forms:

I filed a Form 1 to SBR my TNS Suomi in mid-April. It was approved on July 19th, so it took about 3 months. Also, ATF failed to email the approved F1 to me (which they did last year with a prior F1). I discovered it last week when I logged into atfonline.gov to check my account.

barnbwt.

If you use ATF Eforms, it can take less than a month to receive your approved Form 1.

Click to expand...

That's old data, circa several months ago when they first got Eforms half-working (most of the time). People have since heard how much the times dropped, and now there're like twice or three times as many forms jumping into the stream (mine included). Now the wait's back up to 6-9 months (the site said 6mo estimate last week when I submitted) but the throughput is vastly larger --which is a good thing, at the end of the day*

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Old data? Not hardly.
I have had two customers in the last three weeks reporting 27 days and 34 days on their eformed Form 1's.
Heck, paper Form 4's are taking as little as 105 days. Of the three Form 4's I received in July.....not a one took more than 152 days.

Old data indeed.

************************************
UPDATE:
Another Form 4 arrived today, August 11th, signed by transferor on April 3rd............130 days.

I just filed a form 1 last week and have settled in for the 6+ month wait. If I get an approval in under 2 months a happy dance would be inevitable.

You think it is a good idea to make a pistol in that caliber? Ever wonder why there is no more cheap 5.45x39? Think about it, then try and find a different project. I really like being able to buy and shoot ball ammo for my rifles.

390ish said:

You think it is a good idea to make a pistol in that caliber? Ever wonder why there is no more cheap 5.45x39? Think about it, then try and find a different project. I really like being able to buy and shoot ball ammo for my rifles.

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I've shared that concern in the past as well, fact is there are already Obrez pistols that individuals have made. It shouldn't become a concern unless they start being made commercially which I don't think we have to worry about happening. The Obrez is one of those things that only appeals to a select few of us.

Cooldill, try this for your trust. Full disclosure, this isn't what I used but it's legit and way cheaper than going to a lawyer.

https://silencerco.com/nfa-trust/

Yeah. Maybe i am overreacting, but I don't know that there is a retail sale requirement to trigger a stop import on LPS ball ammo. I believe that there only have to be pistols out there firing the round. There will probably be some person who will be all to happy to point out the existence of these pistols being in existence to the ATF generally. That is why NFA trusts are going to be regulated away, people not leaving well enough alone and pointing out gray areas to the bureau. It is like an accountant finding a new tax shelter and asking for an IRS opinion beforehand. I have more than a few Finnish Mosin Nagants. I think the idea of having an Obrez is appealing. The idea of having a red-headed girlfriend 10 years younger than me is also appealing, but is not a good pursuit for a married man. Particularly given the current Administration, I think the pursuit of a novelty at the hazard of an LPS ban is rather selfish.

I believe the Law Enforcement Officer Protection Act covers projectiles "which may be used in a handgun." SS-109 is specifically exempt, that is why the attempted ban due to ar-15 handguns being out there would likely have been found illegal. Not the case with LPS in 7.62x54r or 7.62x39. The only thing that keeps steel 54r coming in is the absence of handguns. The law, as far as I can read it, does not require that the pistol be sold, just that it be out there.

An Obrez isn't a pistol under the law, it's a short barreled rifle.

Also, some serious concerns have been raised about the Silencerco trusts. More details at guntrustlawyer.com.

390ish - You are correct that there is no spelled out retail requirement. However there have been Obrez pistols in the US for many years, one more I don't think will hurt.

Dave - you are absolutely right in this case that it would be a Short Barrel Rifle not a pistol. I have actually seen people make their own Mosin receivers though (usually by assembling two halfs of original receivers) and thus can build it in a pistol configuration from the start, which is what I had in mind when 360ish and I were talking back and forth.

Oh, if it is going to be an SBR, then have at it. I guess I should have realized that from the start.

The lead NFA trust examiner spoke at a continuing legal education class a few years ago. He said that they were fine with trusts and did not have an agenda to prosecute folks who have transferred on invalid trusts.

Whether or not a trust is valid is a question of the law of the state in which it was drafted. This guy said they had something like seven or nine full-time attorneys that did nothing but review trusts and make sure they conform to the law of the state from which they originated.

He seem to be particularly concerned about The terms of the trust not being followed after the death of the grantor. He was concerned that trustees and or remainder beneficiaries would simply see a proper transfer is a nuisance and a waste of time. He seemed worried that people would take the position that a gun is a gun and either make an illegal transfer to a remainder beneficiary, or simply sell the NFA item in the newspaper. He more or less said people would be going to jail in that instance.

I think it is very important that everyone involved in the trust really understand how important the rules are, and that they understand how the trust works.

All i can say is wear earplugs under your earmuffs... and sunglasses haha

I too love my 91/30s but I couldn't bring myself to chop one. I've seen people shoot those ak pistols and it didn't do a thing for me. I'm not saying that people shouldn't chop one down and have fun with it. If I was going to have something like this I would just buy a mares leg in 45colt and leave my 91/30s as they are. 7.62x54r is just a little big to use in a pistol type weapon IMHO.

I would expect the gun to be much like rifle caliber TC contender pistols in recoil, flash, and blast. 7.62x54R is a stout but tolerable round, I would love to see it...and by see I mean testdrive.