I use Win AA hull, 35 grains of Herco, Claybuster's WAA-R wad, 1/2 of a 20g shot card, the slug and a nice star crimp. I can usually hit soda cans at 60 yards with it thru my 18.5" mossberg 500 with a modified choke :) Not too much kick, NO signs of overpressure and still gets the job done...